It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 9:34 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: How is your positional judgement? Game 22
Post #1 Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:52 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3374
In the Elf commentaries Elf, assuming area scoring and 7½ pts. komi, estimated the winrate for one player as 90½% (58.5k rollouts) after :w32:. Which player was it?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Enjoy! :D

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


Last edited by Bill Spight on Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: How is your positional judgement? Game 22
Post #2 Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:12 pm 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2408
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Liked others: 359
Was liked: 1019
Rank: KGS 2d OGS 1d Fox 4d
KGS: Artevelde
OGS: Knotwilg
Online playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00
If it were White's sente now, I would still think Black is better.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: How is your positional judgement? Game 22
Post #3 Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:07 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1753
Liked others: 177
Was liked: 491
Black has two corners and a half. White's moyo on the top has an open skirt. Black's Q13 group is weak, but so is R12. In addition, Black is more advanced than White towards the center. So overall, I prefer Black.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: How is your positional judgement? Game 22
Post #4 Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:07 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 580
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Liked others: 207
Was liked: 264
Rank: Australian 2 dan
GD Posts: 200
Black has two weak groups. Therefore white is winning.

Is that too simplistic? There's almost nothing that looks like white territory, and white's P17 group looks weak. But I can't see how black could seriously attack that group without getting into trouble at the top left.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: How is your positional judgement? Game 22
Post #5 Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:32 am 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 5539
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1103
Was liked: 1456
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
If black makes the correct move in the shaded area, I think that white is doomed.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . ? ? ? . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , ? ? ? . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . ? ? . O O X X . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black can go low and play a running game, maybe like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . . 1 . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . 7 . 3 . 2 . O O X X . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . 4 . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . 5 . 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Or go high and then come back to the right, somewhat like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . 4 . 2 . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . 3 . 1 . O O X X . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: How is your positional judgement? Game 22
Post #6 Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:46 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3374
Discussion of Elf's commentary

In the Elf commentaries Elf, assuming area scoring and 7½ pts. komi, estimated the winrate for one player as 90½% (58.5k rollouts) after :w32:. Which player was it?

Black. And Black won by resignation.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm32 Black is ahead
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This was a game between Honinbo Shusai Meijin (W) and Segoe Kensaku, 5 dan, GoGoD 1920-01-17a. OC, it was a no komi game.

What now?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm32 Game continuation
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a X . 4 5 |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . O X . 3 . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:b33: - :b35: are all Elf's top choices. Shusai is seeking complications. Elf's top choice for :w36: is a, but it gives Shusai's hane a slightly better winrate for White. Both moves lead to complicated fights. It seems like the main idea of a is to bolster the White wall by sacrificing the other White stones in the top right. The next diagram shows Elf's mainline after Shusai's hane.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm37 Elf's mainline variation for :b37:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X . X O |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . 7 3 . . O X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , . 6 . . O X 1 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . 8 . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:b37: makes a solid connection and then :w38: saves his group on the right side. Then :b39: attacks the White wall. :w40: plays kikashi against the corner, and then :w42: attaches for sabaki. :b43: pulls back, preventing a hane or crosscut there. :w44: runs out towards the center.

Earlier in the game

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm6 Joseki loses 12½% to par
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The extension, :w6:, is joseki and it checks Black's development on the left side, in particular a pincer. I don't think that this play would have come in for criticism before the AI era.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm6 Elf's mainiline variation for :w6:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 2 . 4 . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . , 1 3 . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White plays a bot favorite, the press. After the usual continuation, :w10: occupies the last open corner, a kind of tedomari.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm7 Game continuation
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 6 . . . . . . . 4 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 2 , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:w8: - :w12: may be best in a no komi game, but Elf, assuming a 7½ komi, docks :w8: 11½% and :w12: 10%. For both plays Elf prefers the enclosure at a, which prevents the 3-3 invasion.

Elf's mainline variation for :w8:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm8 Two enclosures
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . 3 . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 7 . 8 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 5 . 6 . . a . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:w8: is unappetizing in a no komi game, as it allows Black to make two enclosures. Black has an easy opening, now. :w10: plays a taisha against :bc:. Before the AI era White could hardly have predicted the slide at :b11:, which seems passive. :w12: approaches the high enclosure in the bottom left and :b13: pincers. :b15: is interesting, a jump instead of making a base at a. It is not as though Black has a strong attack against :w12: and :w14:.

Elf's mainline variation for :w12:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm12 Black attack
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 4 . . 3 . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . 2 . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


After :w12:, :b13: pincers White's two stones in the top right corner. It goes against the grain, at least psychologically, for White to be attacked by Black instead of attacking Black in a no komi game. Again, Black has an easy opening. But these diagrams illustrate the value Elf places on the bottom right enclosure.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm13 Game continuation
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . , 1 . . . . , c . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 4 3 7 . . . . . . . . . 0 9 . . . |
$$ | . . 6 a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:b13: - :w16: are all Elf's top choices. I find :w14: of some interest. OC, it is joseki, but one strategy for White, it seems to me, going back at least as far as Dosaku, is to sketch out a very loose sphere of influence, which we cannot even call a moyo. If Black comes in, he can be attacked. In this game White eventually made a moyo, which Black invaded — twice.

Elf thinks that :b17: loses 9½% to the more solid play at a. :w18: is an anti-shape play, preventing a Black block there, but Elf thinks that it loses 14% to par. :b19: is a creative idea, but Elf docks it 15% versus the solid connection at a and the 3-3- invasion at b. Elf regards :w20: as White's largest mistake so far, losing 16½% to par. White's play here seems altogether too passive. In the top right, Elf thinks that :b21: and :w22: are minor errors, that each one would have been better at c. With :w22: perhaps White was pursuing the strategy I mentioned before.

Elf's mainline variation for :w18:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm18 Mainline variation for :w18:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . W . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 2 . W . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O B 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

:b8: at :bc:

Shusai would have seen this sequence in a instant. One problem is that it weakens the :wc: stones.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Mainline variation for :w18:, continued
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . 1 . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , 5 . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White makes nice territory in exchange for Black's attack. Good for White, says Elf. (Black's top left group has problems, too.) This diagram shows why Elf did not like Black's jump to :bc:.

Elf's mainline variation for :b19:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19 Mainline for :b19:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 7 . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . 6 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

:bc: = :b29:, :wc: = :w30:

:b19: is usual, forcing :w20:. Then Black jumps into the 3-3 point in the bottom right corner. Note: :b19: at :b21: transposes to this position, as well.

Elf's mainline variation for :w20:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Mainline variation for :w20:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . 8 , X . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . O 9 0 . O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 2 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 6 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:w20: and :w22: push through and cut. :b23: does not go quietly, but makes a fight of it. :w26: threatens the Black corner group. Black does not want White to play at 27.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30 Mainline variation for :w20:, continued
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . 8 . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 7 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 2 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:w30: connects his stones, and then the sharp fighting continues.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm40 Mainline variation for :w20:, continued
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 X O 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 4 7 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

:w50: at :b43:

:b43: is a nice sacrifice tesuji. :) After :w50: Black has made thickness, but White has taken a good bit of profit.

Elf's variations rarely last so long, especially since :w20: got only 29.6k rollouts. But it is pretty much a one lane road, with few rollouts lost per move to alternatives. :)

----

White lost ground in the opening, which is normal in no komi games, but he blew more than 30% in two moves in the top left, by not being aggressive enough.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: How is your positional judgement? Game 22
Post #7 Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 11:23 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 470
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 278
Rank: UK 2d Dec15
KGS: mathmo 4d
IGS: mathmo 4d
I first looked at the upper left. B's shape is bizarre. On the other hand, W's isn't much better, having an extra move on the side for little gain. Probably it is slightly better for W locally.

However, the upper right is a disaster for W it seems. Even with the next, move W owes a big territorial move at the top and on the right with bad heavy shape on both sides. W will get to counterattack the centre in return but profit in the centre isn't easy when there is so much shape. Worst of all, B has the next move to play P18. After say O17 to maintain the threat of S17, B can play R10 after which W is almost dead. And then aim at R4 to continue the attack. G15 isn't attacking much nor building when B is out in the centre.

check: not quite right as B doesn't need to defend the corner yet. And my direction of attack was wrong.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group