It is currently Thu May 22, 2025 12:01 pm

View unanswered posts | View active topics View unread posts | View new posts | View your posts


Board index » Improve Your Game » Study Group

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]



Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 6
  [ 120 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
Offline jlt
 Post subject: Tsumegos from real games
Post #1 Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:43 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1783
Liked others: 185
Was liked: 495
In this thread I will post some tsumegos that I missed in my games. SDKs should find them fairly easy, but seeing the solution in byo-yomi without knowing if a solution exists is another matter.

The following is from a Fox 3k vs. 3k game (after a 6-game losing streak I was demoted from 2k to 3k, but afterwards won 11 games in a row so I will be back to at least 2k).

Black to play and kill something.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X . . O . X . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X . O . , X O . O . X . . . |
$$ | X X X X O O O . . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O X X X . . . . . . O . O O X X . |
$$ | X X O O . . O O . O X X . O . . O . . |
$$ | . O . O X X X O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X X O . O X . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X X O X O X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . O X X O X . X X O O X X O O X . . . |
$$ | . O O O . O O O X X X . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . X . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . X O X X . . X . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . O O . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . . O . . O . X O . O O . |
$$ | . . O . O X O O . O . . . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This post by jlt was liked by 3 people: Bill Spight, iopq, marvin
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #2 Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:48 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3374
jlt wrote:
Black to play and kill something.


:tmbup:

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #3 Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:32 am 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 5546
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1104
Was liked: 1457
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X . . O . X . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X . O . , X O . O . X . . . |
$$ | X X X X O O O . . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O X X X . . . . . . O . O O X X . |
$$ | X X O O . . O O . O X X . O . . O . . |
$$ | . O . O X X X O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | 1 . O O X . X X O . O X . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X X O X O X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . O X X O X . X X O O X X O O X . . . |
$$ | . O O O . O O O X X X . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . X . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . X O X X . . X . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . O O . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . . O . . O . X O . O O . |
$$ | . . O . O X O O . O . . . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline jlt
 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #4 Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:17 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1783
Liked others: 185
Was liked: 495
This move indeed kills something.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline explo
 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #5 Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:36 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 108
Location: France
Liked others: 14
Was liked: 18
Rank: FFG 1d
jlt wrote:
This move indeed kills something.

Was it the move you had in mind? I think white can play A8 to save half the group in sente, but I don't know if it was actually played.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline jlt
 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #6 Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:52 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1783
Liked others: 185
Was liked: 495
Yes, that's the move I had in mind and that I didn't see during the game. That move indeed kills half of the white group.

The actual game was ridiculous, both players didn't see that the group could be killed between moves 170 and 208, and on the other hand another white group died at move 196 although it could have survived easily, among other big mistakes.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Mike Novack
 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #7 Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:38 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 1045
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 182
explo wrote:
jlt wrote:
This move indeed kills something.

Was it the move you had in mind? I think white can play A8 to save half the group in sente, but I don't know if it was actually played.


A8? And not B11? What am I not seeing?
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline jlt
 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #8 Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:57 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1783
Liked others: 185
Was liked: 495
I don't know if everyone is talking about the same thing, but here is a variation that kills the whole group if Black A11 and if White tries to save everything.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X . . O . X . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X . O . , X O . O . X . . . |
$$ | X X X X O O O . . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O X X X . . . . . . O . O O X X . |
$$ | X X O O . . O O . O X X . O . . O . . |
$$ | 3 O . O X X X O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | 1 2 O O X . X X O . O X . O . O . . . |
$$ | 4 . O X X . X X O X O X O . . O X X . |
$$ | . O X X O X . X X O O X X O O X . . . |
$$ | 5 O O O . O O O X X X . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . X . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . X O X X . . X . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . O O . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . . O . . O . X O . O O . |
$$ | . . O . O X O O . O . . . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


(In the game I read until :w4: but didn't see that B10 was a false eye. :oops: )
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline EricBackus
 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #9 Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:17 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 83
Liked others: 4
Was liked: 29
Rank: 2 kyu
GD Posts: 109
Universal go server handle: EricBackus
To be honest, the first thing that jumped out at me on this position was a question of whether the white upper left corner is completely safe. Black has a descent on one side, and it is black's move. After looking it up, I think it probably is safe, but it's not at all obvious to me as an SDK player. Maybe there's a thousand-year ko hidden in there somewhere.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline dfan
 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #10 Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:15 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1596
Liked others: 891
Was liked: 533
Rank: AGA 2k Fox 3d
GD Posts: 61
KGS: dfan
Here's my take on the upper left corner.

In the normal "Long L" shape, Black can make a 10,000 year ko:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------
$$ | . 4 5 . . . .
$$ | 2 1 3 . O X .
$$ | . O O O O X .
$$ | . X X X X X .
$$ | . . . . . . .[/go]


If White has an extra liberty, she can resist and live with the tesuji of :w4::

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------
$$ | 7 6 4 5 . . .
$$ | 2 1 3 . O X .
$$ | . O O O O X .
$$ | . X X X a X .
$$ | . . . . . . .[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------
$$ | X 8 . X 9 . .
$$ | O X X 0 O X .
$$ | . O O O O X .
$$ | . X X X a X .
$$ | . . . . . . .[/go]

:w10: would be self-atari if a were filled, which is why White needs the liberty.

This is effectively the same situation as the game, in that White has one extra liberty than in the 10,000-year-ko situation, which I've labeled b:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . O X .
$$ | . O O O O X .
$$ | b O X X X X .
$$ | X X X X . . .[/go]

I don't see any good tricks for Black (involving A17, say), so White looks safe to me.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline jlt
 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #11 Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:40 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1783
Liked others: 185
Was liked: 495
Tsumego #2.

This one should be fairly easy. I am white, 5k on Tygem (possibly underranked, I haven't had many games there recently).

1. White to play. What is the status of the upper left corner?
2. Some moves of White are better than others. How can Black punish if White chooses a suboptimal move?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . X O X X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O O O X X X X O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . O . , . O O O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X O O O . X O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O O X . X . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O X . X . X O . . . |[/go]


In the game, I played the following move but Black didn't find the punishment.

A18
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline xela
 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #12 Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:37 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 652
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Liked others: 219
Was liked: 281
Rank: Australian 3 dan
GD Posts: 200
Status:
The black group is a dead shape, but black has threats to connect out below, so white shouldn't expect to kill the group unconditionally.

Black replies to your move:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Two ways to make ko
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 1 3 X X O O . . . X O X X . . . X X . |
$$ | 2 . X O O X . . . O O O X X X X O O . |
$$ | 7 X . O . . . O . , . O O O X O . . . |
$$ | 4 O . . . . . . . . O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | 5 6 O O O . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X O O O . X O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O O X . X . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O X . X . X O . . . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Continuation: the more complicated ko -- black can't connect at A16!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O O X X O O . . . X O X X . . . X X . |
$$ | X 2 X O O X . . . O O O X X X X O O . |
$$ | O X 4 O . . . O . , . O O O X O . . . |
$$ | 3 O 1 . . . . . . . O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | O X O O O . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X O O O . X O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O O X . X . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O X . X . X O . . . |[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Black's best reply: alive
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | 6 7 X . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 1 4 X X O O . . . X O X X . . . X X . |
$$ | 5 8 X O O X . . . O O O X X X X O O . |
$$ | 2 X . O . . . O . , . O O O X O . . . |
$$ | 3 O . . . . . . . . O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X O O O . X O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O O X . X . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O X . X . X O . . . |[/go]

Is this the best move for white?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc This way, black can't avoid the ko
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 X X O O . . . X O X X . . . X X . |
$$ | 2 . X O O X . . . O O O X X X X O O . |
$$ | 1 X . O . . . O . , . O O O X O . . . |
$$ | 4 O 7 . . . . . . . O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | 5 6 O O O . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X O O O . X O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O O X . X . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O X . X . X O . . . |[/go]
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline zermelo
 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #13 Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:07 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 46
Liked others: 109
Was liked: 34
Rank: Euro 1 dan
GD Posts: 7
Mike Novack wrote:
explo wrote:
jlt wrote:
This move indeed kills something.

Was it the move you had in mind? I think white can play A8 to save half the group in sente, but I don't know if it was actually played.


A8? And not B11? What am I not seeing?


A8 allows connection to lower left by B6, shown below. This is a good shape to know, as it comes up now and then in games:
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline jlt
 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #14 Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:17 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1783
Liked others: 185
Was liked: 495
@xela:

Quote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Black's best reply: alive
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | 6 7 X . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 1 4 X X O O . . . X O X X . . . X X . |
$$ | 5 8 X O O X . . . O O O X X X X O O . |
$$ | 2 X . O . . . O . , . O O O X O . . . |
$$ | 3 O . . . . . . . . O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X O O O . X O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O O X . X . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O X . X . X O . . . |[/go]



But White can play :w5: differently:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Still a ko
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | 6 7 X . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 1 4 X X O O . . . X O X X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O O O X X X X O O . |
$$ | 2 X 5 O . . . O . , . O O O X O . . . |
$$ | 3 O . . . . . . . . O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X O O O . X O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O O X . X . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O X . X . X O . . . |[/go]


So it seems that if White's move is at A18, Black's best response is to threaten to connect by ko the corner group with the side group.

Quote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc This way, black can't avoid the ko
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 X X O O . . . X O X X . . . X X . |
$$ | 2 . X O O X . . . O O O X X X X O O . |
$$ | 1 X . O . . . O . , . O O O X O . . . |
$$ | 4 O 7 . . . . . . . O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | 5 6 O O O . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X O O O . X O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O O X . X . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O X . X . X O . . . |[/go]



The following response by White looks better, since even if Black wins the ko, the corner group is still disconnected.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Better for White
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | 6 . X . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 X X O O . . . X O X X . . . X X . |
$$ | 2 7 X O O X . . . O O O X X X X O O . |
$$ | 1 X 5 O . . . O . , . O O O X O . . . |
$$ | 3 O . . . . . . . . O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X O O O . X O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O O X . X . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O X . X . X O . . . |[/go]

This post by jlt was liked by: xela
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline xela
 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #15 Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:46 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 652
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Liked others: 219
Was liked: 281
Rank: Australian 3 dan
GD Posts: 200
So many different ways to make ko! Thanks for the clear explanation.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline jlt
 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #16 Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:01 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1783
Liked others: 185
Was liked: 495
Tsumego #3: a tesuji problem. White to play and get a good result. What are the next few moves?

That kind of position is beyond my reading horizon in a real game, even though it was a slow game on a physical board.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . X . . . . . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . X X O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . X W W W W X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . X . . . . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This post by jlt was liked by: xela
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline jlt
 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #17 Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:54 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1783
Liked others: 185
Was liked: 495
Tsumego #4. Black to play and capture some stones.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . O . X O . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . X O O . O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . X X O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . O O . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X X . X O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This post by jlt was liked by: xela
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #18 Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:53 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
Liked others: 1602
Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
jlt wrote:
Tsumego #3: a tesuji problem. White to play and get a good result. What are the next few moves?

That kind of position is beyond my reading horizon in a real game, even though it was a slow game on a physical board.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . X . . . . . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . X X O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . X W W W W X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . X . . . . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If black goes along and blocks after you push:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . X . . . . . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X X 2 . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X 1 X X O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . X W W W W X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . X . . . . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Then there are some interesting options:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . X . . . . . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X 5 . . 3 4 . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X X X 1 2 . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O X X O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . X . . . . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


or:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . X . . . . . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X 5 . 4 3 . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X X X 1 2 . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O X X O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . X . . . . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


but the last diagram is not perfect, because if black gives up a few stones, the "important" ones are still in danger:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . X . . . . . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X 5 . 4 3 6 . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X X X 1 2 . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O X X O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . X . . . . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It's also possible that black doesn't answer the way you'd expect with the initial push. Maybe something weird, I dunno - it's not totally clear to me:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . X . . . . . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . 2 . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X 1 X X O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . X . . . . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
be immersed
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #19 Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:55 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
Liked others: 1602
Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
jlt wrote:
Tsumego #4. Black to play and capture some stones.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . O . X O . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . X O O . O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . X X O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . O O . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X X . X O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


One possible option:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 5 4 . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O 9 3 O 1 X O . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X X O 6 X O O 2 O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . 7 X X O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . O O . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X X . X O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
be immersed
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline xela
 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #20 Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:06 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 652
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Liked others: 219
Was liked: 281
Rank: Australian 3 dan
GD Posts: 200
Tsumego 3, I'm thinking along similar lines to Kirby:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X b O . X . . . . . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . 9 . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X a . 6 5 7 . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X X 2 3 4 8 . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X 1 X X O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . X W W W W X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

:b6: and friends are down to two liberties. The points a and b are miai, so I think black can't escape being captured. But I don't think of this as tesuji, white is playing fairly blunt moves. Or have I missed something better?
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 6
  [ 120 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Board index » Improve Your Game » Study Group

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group