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 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #61 Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:55 am 
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I wanted to play :w5: at :w9:, and if black draws out the stones, you can build the eye.

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 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #62 Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:11 pm 
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Problem #26, an endgame problem.

I was White in that game. Both players missed a big endgame move, which one? Black to play.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . O O O X . . X X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . X X O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X . X O O O . . . O O O |
$$ | . . . O O O X X . , X X O O O O X X O |
$$ | O O O . . . O O X . . . X X X X . X O |
$$ | O X X . . O . . X . X O X . . . . X X |
$$ | O X . . . O X . . X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | X . X . . X X O O X . . O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X X O X O . O X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O O X O X O . O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X X O O X O X O X . O O X . |
$$ | . . X O X X O . . O O O X . . X . . X |
$$ | . X X O O O O . . . O X . X . X X X O |
$$ | . X O . . . . . O . O X . . . O . O O |
$$ | O X O . . . . O X O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . , . . . O X X O O O O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O O X X X . X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #63 Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:35 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . O O O X . . X X X O . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . X X O X O 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X . X O O O . . 2 O O O |
$$ | . . . O O O X X . , X X O O O O X X O |
$$ | O O O . . . O O X . . . X X X X . X O |
$$ | O X X . . O . . X . X O X . . . . X X |
$$ | O X . . . O X . . X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | X . X . . X X O O X . . O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X X O X O . O X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O O X O X O . O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X X O O X O X O X . O O X . |
$$ | . . X O X X O . . O O O X . . X . . X |
$$ | . X X O O O O . . . O X . X . X X X O |
$$ | . X O . . . . . O . O X . . . O . O O |
$$ | O X O . . . . O X O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . , . . . O X X O O O O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O O X X X b X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think this is a problem for White. If S19, then Black throws in and squeezes on the left before S18, which leaves White short of liberties for the squeeze. If Q18 first, then Black just lets himself get squeezed, but then O17 becomes a double atari.

On the lower side, I think White could also go in at 'a', so Black should protect at 'b'.

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 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #64 Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:41 am 
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@Harleqin: you got the correct :b1: but I think your :b3: doesn't work.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . O O O X . . X X X O 7 . 3 4 . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . X X O X O 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X . X O O O 5 6 2 O O O |
$$ | . . . O O O X X . , X X O O O O X X O |
$$ | O O O . . . O O X . . . X X X X . X O |
$$ | O X X . . O . . X . X O X . . . . X X |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm8
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . O O O X . . X X X O X . X O 4 |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . X X O X O X 5 3 2 . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X . X O O O 1 O O O O O |
$$ | . . . O O O X X . , X X O O O O X X O |
$$ | O O O . . . O O X . . . X X X X . X O |
$$ | O X X . . O . . X . X O X . . . . X X |[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #65 Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:36 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . O O O X . . X X X O 3 . . 6 . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . X X O X O 1 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X . X O O O 5 . 4 O O O |
$$ | . . . O O O X X . , X X O O O O X X O |
$$ | O O O . . . O O X . . . X X X X . X O |
$$ | O X X . . O . . X . X O X . . . . X X |
$$ | O X . . . O X . . X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Initially I saw the above sequence.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . O O O X . . X X X O 3 . 5 7 . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . X X O X O 1 . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X . X O O O 4 . 2 O O O |
$$ | . . . O O O X X . , X X O O O O X X O |
$$ | O O O . . . O O X . . . X X X X . X O |
$$ | O X X . . O . . X . X O X . . . . X X |
$$ | O X . . . O X . . X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Then I realized White could change the order and think about saving everything. I don't think she can.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . O O O X . . X X X O 3 . . 6 . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . X X O X O 1 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X . X O O O 5 . 2 O O O |
$$ | . . . O O O X X . , X X O O O O X X O |
$$ | O O O . . . O O X . . . X X X X . X O |
$$ | O X X . . O . . X . X O X . . . . X X |
$$ | O X . . . O X . . X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So it probably boils down to the initial sequence in reverse order anyway.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . O O O X . . X X X O . . 3 6 9 |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . X X O X O 1 5 8 7 0 |
$$ | . . . O X X . X . X O O O 4 . 2 O O O |
$$ | . . . O O O X X . , X X O O O O X X O |
$$ | O O O . . . O O X . . . X X X X . X O |
$$ | O X X . . O . . X . X O X . . . . X X |
$$ | O X . . . O X . . X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And I don't think Harleqin's move holds, but for different reasons.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . O O O X . . X X X O 3 . 5 6 9 |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . X X O X O 1 . 8 7 0 |
$$ | . . . O X X . X . X O O O 4 . 2 O O O |
$$ | . . . O O O X X . , X X O O O O X X O |
$$ | O O O . . . O O X . . . X X X X . X O |
$$ | O X X . . O . . X . X O X . . . . X X |
$$ | O X . . . O X . . X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Edit: I'm defeated by my own argument ....

So how about:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . O O O X . . X X X O 3 . . 5 . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . X X O X O 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X . X O O O 4 . 2 O O O |
$$ | . . . O O O X X . , X X O O O O X X O |
$$ | O O O . . . O O X . . . X X X X . X O |
$$ | O X X . . O . . X . X O X . . . . X X |
$$ | O X . . . O X . . X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Seems like seki

But is it sente? That makes all the difference


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 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #66 Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:05 am 
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You got it!

The last diagram is best for White since White gets sente, while White takes gote in the first diagram.

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