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 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #81 Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2022 11:57 am 
Judan
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Problem #30:
This looks like fun. It might work.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X X X . 3 2 . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | O O X O O X O O 1 . . . . O X O X X . |
$$ | X . O O O O X . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . O O . X O X . X . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O X . . O . O . X . X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . O O X X X O . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . X X X X O . X X . X X X O . X . |
$$ | . X X X . X O O . O . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X O . O . O O X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O X X X O X X O . O . . . |[/go]

The simple pull back does not work for white:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X X X 5 3 2 . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | O O X O O X O O 1 6 . . . O X O X X . |
$$ | X . O O O O X . 4 O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . O O . X O X . X . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O X . . O . O . X . X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . O O X X X O . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . X X X X O . X X . X X X O . X . |
$$ | . X X X . X O O . O . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X O . O . O O X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O X X X O X X O . O . . . |[/go]

So maybe white tries the counter attack, but leaves the aji at J17
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X X X 5 3 2 0 . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | O O X O O X O O 1 9 . . . O X O X X . |
$$ | X . O O O O X 6 4 O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . O O . X O X 7 X . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O X . . O . O . X . X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . O O X X X O . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . X X X X O . X X . X X X O . X . |
$$ | . X X X . X O O . O . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X O . O . O O X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O X X X O X X O . O . . . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O 3 . 6 . 5 4 7 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X O O 2 . . . O O O . . |
$$ | O O X O O X O O X X 1 . . O X O X X . |
$$ | X . O O O O X O O O C . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . O O . X O X X X . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O X . . O . O . X . X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . O O X X X O . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . X X X X O . X X . X X X O . X . |
$$ | . X X X . X O O . O . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X O . O . O O X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O X X X O X X O . O . . . |[/go]


Now it is two kos. I'm not really sure how this ends.

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 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #82 Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2022 12:11 pm 
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jlt wrote:
Katago sees this:


It is a nice one. It is a hard one, at least I think so.

Do you have the answer to this, white is threatening to make an eye so I assume :b5: onward.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . 3 . 8 . 7 6 9 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X X X 1 2 0 . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | O O X O O X O O . . . . . O X O X X . |
$$ | X . O O O O X . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . O O . X O X . X . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O X . . O . O . X . X X . . |
$$ | 4 X . . . O O X X X O . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . 5 . X X X X O . X X . X X X O . X . |
$$ | . X X X . X O O . O . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X O . O . O O X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O X X X O X X O . O . . . |[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #83 Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2022 12:19 pm 
Gosei
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Why not :b5: at A12 ?

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 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #84 Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2022 12:42 pm 
Gosei
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Actually if White makes the exchange a-b first then Black does have to pull back at :b5:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . 3 . 8 . 7 6 9 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X X X 1 2 0 . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | O O X O O X O O . . . . . O X O X X . |
$$ | X . O O O O X . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . O O . X O X . X . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O X . . O . O . X . X X . . |
$$ | 4 X a b . O O X X X O . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . 5 . X X X X O . X X . X X X O . X . |
$$ | . X X X . X O O . O . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X O . O . O O X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O X X X O X X O . O . . . |[/go]


This might finish with a seki by double ko (with Black taking sente)? Not absolutely sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #85 Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2022 12:49 pm 
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Yeah getting the 1st line hane.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . 3 . 0 . 9 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X X X 1 2 . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | O O X O O X O O . . . . . O X O X X . |
$$ | X . O O O O X . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . O O . X O X . X . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O X . . O . O . X . X X . . |
$$ | 6 X 4 5 . O O X X X O . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . 7 . X X X X O . X X . X X X O . X . |
$$ | . X X X . X O O . O . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X O . O . O O X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O X X X O X X O . O . . . |[/go]


Now black has the hane-capture and this very botty-clamp. I have lost a few capturing races to bots when they pull something like this but I am sort of lost.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . O . X O 3 . 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X X X X O 1 4 . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | O O X O O X O O 2 . . . . O X O X X . |
$$ | X . O O O O X . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . O O . X O X . X . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O X . . O . O . X . X X . . |
$$ | O X O X . O O X X X O . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . X . X X X X O . X X . X X X O . X . |
$$ | . X X X . X O O . O . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X O . O . O O X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O X X X O X X O . O . . . |[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #86 Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2022 1:08 pm 
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
Problem #30:


The cross cut might fail like this. At least I don't see what to do after white captures :b3:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X X X 4 3 2 5 8 . . . O O O . . |
$$ | O O X O O X O O 1 . . . . O X O X X . |
$$ | X . O O O O X . 7 O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . O O . X O X . X . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O X . . O . O . X . X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . O O X X X O . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . X X X X O . X X . X X X O . X . |
$$ | . X X X . X O O . O . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X O . O . O O X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O X X X O X X O . O . . . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X X X 4 3 2 5 . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | O O X O O X O O 1 7 . . . O X O X X . |
$$ | X . O O O O X 9 8 O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . O O . X O X . X . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O X 0 . O . O . X . X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . O O X X X O . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . X X X X O . X X . X X X O . X . |
$$ | . X X X . X O O . O . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X O . O . O O X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O X X X O X X O . O . . . |[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #87 Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2022 4:12 pm 
Judan
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kvasir wrote:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
Problem #30:


The cross cut might fail like this. At least I don't see what to do after white captures :b3:
...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X X X 4 3 2 5 . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | O O X O O X O O 1 7 . . . O X O X X . |
$$ | X . O O O O X 9 8 O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . O O . X O X . X . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O X 0 . O . O . X . X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . O O X X X O . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . X X X X O . X X . X X X O . X . |
$$ | . X X X . X O O . O . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X O . O . O O X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O X X X O X X O . O . . . |[/go]


Oops. I missed move 10.

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 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #88 Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2022 2:57 am 
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I thought this makes the corner alive, but the weakness at 'a' is a bit annoying. Maybe that's the price to pay, though.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X X X . 1 . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | O O X O O X O O . . . . . O X O X X . |
$$ | X . O O O O X . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . O O . X O X . X . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O X a . O . O . X . X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . O O X X X O . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . X X X X O . X X . X X X O . X . |
$$ | . X X X . X O O . O . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X O . O . O O X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O X X X O X X O . O . . . |[/go]

_________________
A good system naturally covers all corner cases without further effort.

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 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #89 Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 12:31 am 
Gosei
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Problem #31, White to play. Interesting life and death situation on the bottom right.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . O O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . X , X O . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X . . O O X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Possible answer:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . O O O O O 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O X 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . 1 . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . X , X O . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X . . O O X X X X X 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black's side group is dead.
The goal of the exchange :w3: :b4: is to avoid sequences such as

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . O O O O O 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O X 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X 4 7 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O 9 . 8 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X 2 6 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . 1 . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . X , X O . . O O O 0 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X . . O O X X X X X a . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . b . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


however White could have made the exchange a-b at anytime.

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 Post subject: Re: Tsumegos from real games
Post #90 Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 2:43 am 
Gosei
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Problem #32, Black to play.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . O O . . . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O X X O X . O X X X O O O . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X O O . O . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X O . O . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O X X O . O O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O X X X O X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . O O O X . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . O X . X . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X . X . . . O O . O . X |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . X X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O X , . . . . . , . X . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X X . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Answer:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Answer
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . O O . . . X O X 1 . . . |
$$ | . X . X O X X O X . O X X X O O O . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X O O . O . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X O . O . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O X X O . O O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O X X X O X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . O O O X . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . O X . X . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X . X . . . O O . O . X |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . X X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O X , . . . . . , . X . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X X . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


In the game I played
S18


My opponent didn't manage to punish

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Wrong move
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . 8 . 7 . |
$$ | . . X X X . . O O . . . X O X 5 6 1 4 |
$$ | . X . X O X X O X . O X X X O O O 2 . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X O O . O . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X O . O . . X . . . 3 . |
$$ | . . O . . . O X X O . O O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O X X X O X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . O O O X . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . O X . X . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X . X . . . O O . O . X |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . X X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O X , . . . . . , . X . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X X . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Wrong move
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . a . 6 . 5 . |
$$ | . . X X X . . O O . . . X O X . . 1 4 |
$$ | . X . X O X X O X . O X X X O O O 2 . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X O O . O . . X X X O b |
$$ | . . O . . . . X O . O . . X . . . 3 . |
$$ | . . O . . . O X X O . O O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O X X X O X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . O O O X . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . O X . X . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X . X . . . O O . O . X |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . X X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O X , . . . . . , . X . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X X . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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