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 Post subject: Re: Approximations for the big endgame?
Post #21 Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 7:11 am 
Lives in sente

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kvasir wrote:
Gérard TAILLE wrote:
That means that R1 is a reverse sente position and the count of the position R1 is -10 (the value B cannot appear in this result can it?).


Thank you for the explanation.

I view B as a variable, not a value. The variable will appear even if always B = 0.

I think I need to reiterated that I am talking about a method to estimate various similar positions, not only the exact position shown. This is why there are variables representing values that need to be estimated in each situation. If it was only one position then there would be no need for variables and I this discussion wouldn't make any sense.

Without trying too hard to convince you I still want to point out that even in this exact position there are various ways to play and the correct continuations would change if we were to add or remove stones to create a more realistic position.

You showed this variation but note that white can approach this differently and it could be a problem for black in exactly the kind of open to the center positions shown in the diagrams.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . .|
$$ . . . . . . . . .|
$$ . . O . . . . . .|
$$ . . . . O O O O O|
$$ . . . X X X X X O|
$$ . . . . . . . 1 X|
$$ . . . . . . . . 3|
$$ . . . . . . . 2 .|
$$ . . . . . . X . .|
$$ . . . . . , . . .|
$$ . . . . . . . . .|[/go]


Another way for white could be

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . .|
$$ . . . . . . . . .|
$$ . . O . . . . . .|
$$ . . . . O O O O O|
$$ . . . X X X X X O|
$$ . . . . . . . 1 X|
$$ . . . . . . 3 . .|
$$ . . . . . . . 2 .|
$$ . . . . . . X . .|
$$ . . . . . , . . .|
$$ . . . . . . . . .|[/go]


Which continuation is correct depends on many factors, the player using these formulas would have to choose the continuations.

I hope this clears something up. In the OP I asked some questions but didn't necessarily expect answers.

Anyway, please don't take this too seriously, it is about an idea and having a conversation. For now we appear to talk cross purposes, it is like I want to do one thing here but you want to do another. I think if I were to improve on anything, for example correct mistakes and improve the presentation of the idea, I'd have to understand this confusion. It is possible that I have made some grievous mistake and that is the source of the confusion, I mean I did write "apples" when I meant "applies".

I wanted to reply to Robert's good suggestions just now but that will have to wait another day.


I like very much your approach because you try to handle positions in a context where the classical approach (miai calculation) cannot be applied in practice. Maybe (?) I also like very much your approach because I see some similarity with my own method!

The main point that is very satisfactory for me is the top-down approach. You "estimate" the value of the root position and in order to have a better evaluation you try also to "estimate" the value of some follow-up. Though I proceed differently I am convinced that this idea is the best approach in the big endgame phase and I am happy to exchange with you around such idea.

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