I encountered this position in a handicap game : after 6, both my opponent and me thought Black live in the corner, and he tenukied. I thought it was still alive so I didn't play there until the endgame, where I played 8 to reduce the corner.

To my surprise, I actually killed him. Did he make a mistake or was it unavoidable ?

Since I am to it, is 6 the proper move ?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ --------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 8 . . . |
$$ . . . . 4 . . 5 . . |
$$ , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ . . . . . 6 . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

tenuki.

Black can live.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Joseki
$$ --------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 8 . . . |
$$ . . . . 4 . . 7 . . |
$$ , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ . . . . . 6 . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

, elsewhere.

This is usually how this position arises. Your was fine.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Joseki
$$ --------------------
$$ . . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ . . . 0 . . O 1 . . |
$$ . . . . O . 2 X . . |
$$ , . . . 8 7 X 5 . . |
$$ . . . . . O . 4 3 . |
$$ . . . . . . . O 6 . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

and are tesuji.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm11 Joseki (continued)
$$ --------------------
$$ . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ , . . . O X X X . 1 |
$$ . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

Now to show that Black is alive.

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[go]$$W Life
$$ --------------------
$$ . . . . . 5 B 1 6 . |
$$ . . . O . . O X 2 . |
$$ . . . . O . O X . 4 |
$$ , . . . O X X X . X |
$$ . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ . . . . . . . O O 3 |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

is tesuji. If you missed it, join the club.

You see the importance of .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W Death
$$ --------------------
$$ . . . . . . X 1 2 . |
$$ . . . O . . O X 6 3 |
$$ . . . . O . O X . 4 |
$$ , . . . O X X X 7 X |
$$ . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ . . . . . . . O O 5 |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

is a mistake, which allows the tesuji of .

Very clever of Black to live, eh?

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Tricky...

Thanks a lot, I turned around and didn't see that at all.

I wouldn't have missed the tesuji at 2 in your before-the-last diagram, but I totally missed the two before (I had to put the stone to understand why they were tesuji).

We should have a "venerate" button for the likes of you

interesting, this position is known and dismissed as small life for Black, but they should put in huge red letters that you need to solve dan level tsumego to get this small life (i say dan level i am not sure but clearly those 3 tesuji almost in a row are several stones above me).

_________________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

Totally OT, but why is this white:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Joseki
$$ --------------------
$$ . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . W a . O X . . |
$$ . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ , . . . O X X X . . |
$$ . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

better than a?

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B tenuki twice; what did you expect -- for B to play 20k moves and live in sente?

That's true of more corner positions than you know, Perceval. Every so often, the right variation comes up and you or I will just die with a "live" group.

_________________
Occupy Babel!

To answer a question with a question, which move gives white more influence over the top side of the board? And is white making any territory towards the top right corner?

Here's a similar variation to help you think about the marked stone:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm11 Black 11 changes little
$$ --------------------
$$ . . . . 8 1 X 4 9 . |
$$ . . . W . 2 O X 5 . |
$$ . . . . O . O X . 7 |
$$ , . . . O X X X . 3 |
$$ . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ . . . . . . . O O 6 |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

Also, in typical Bill style, he has taught you a strong endgame sequence without telling you .

David

_________________
David

Go Game Guru: Learn Go | How to Get Better at Go | Go Game Shop | Go Boards | Baduk TV

Well, I learned this joseki when I was 4 kyu, and I was clueless about the whole thing.



Well, thank you. And I see that a lot of people liked the post.

Just reporting what's in the book, folks.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

That's the true sadness of our time. We have everything written down somewhere in books, but only few know the right time to reveal the wisdom from the right book ; )

_________________
My "guide" to become stronger in Go