Fuseki-question

Pippen · #1

I played black and I don't think my just played marked stone is the biggest move. Would u agree and what would be your choice and why?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . O . . X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . B . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Horibe · #2

I agree.

Locally it is a pretty bad move - this is the wrong spot to attack that shape.

I would jump down on the lower right and take the corner, this seems biggest to me.

topazg · #3

Pippen wrote:

I played black and I don't think my just played marked stone is the biggest move. Would u agree and what would be your choice and why?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . O . . X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . B . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I agree, the following would be my ideas:

Joaz Banbeck · #4

My first reaction is that I would never start a fight in the top until my top right group was a bit more stable. I wouldn't want a fight starting in the top and boiling over my group.
My second reaction is that if I decided that I absolutely had to play in the top, I'd go with K17 or H16.

When looking at the whole board, a play on the left at 'a' looks biggest.

daal · #5

To me, it seems like the question is about timing: If you play elsewhere, will white reinforce the top at or around where you played on his next move? I'm too weak to be sure, but it seems unlikely. On both sides, it looks advantageous for you to expand your group and pressure his (something along the lines of what topazg suggested), so that would be my priority.

Bill Spight · #6

My feeling:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . O . . X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . B . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . 2 . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The right side is bigger than it looks. Both sides have strong threats. If White responds to :b1:

with

, I will switch to the left side.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . O 3 . . | $$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . O . . X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . a O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I would like to start with :b1:

to elicit a White response at "a" first, but White might reply with :w2:

, which threatens 3.

logan · #7

Pippen wrote:

I played black and I don't think my just played marked stone is the biggest move. Would u agree and what would be your choice and why?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . O . . X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . B . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It's not the biggest point. Also the marked stone should be at 'a' in the diagram below. When White plays 'b' with the marked joseki on the left, then Black can freely gouge out the territory or overconcentrate White by beginning at 'a.' This is why 'b' is rarely seen anymore with this position in professional play.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X W . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X W W X . W . a . . . O . . X . . | $$ | . . X W . . . . . . . b . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Examples:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Ex. 1: 'a' & 'b' miai $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X W 2 . 4 6 . . a . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X W W X . W . X . . . O . . X . . | $$ | . . X W . 3 5 . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . W . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Ex. 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X W 2 . 6 . . . 8 . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X W W X . W 4 X . . . O . . X . . | $$ | . . X W . 3 . 0 5 1 . O . . 9 X . . . | $$ | . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Ex. 2: Continutation $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X W X 6 X . . . X . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X W W X 1 W X X 4 . . O . . X . . | $$ | . . X W . O 7 X O O 2 O . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . W . . . 8 . . 3 5 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

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