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 Post subject: Re: How to Become a Dan
Post #41 Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:22 pm 
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lovelove wrote:
Lecture 18

Invasion after joseki (Part 2)


In the 2nd variation, white r9 will often be better than s8 as it also connects but stops black playing r9 himself to build some outside influence.

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 Post subject: Re: How to Become a Dan
Post #42 Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:51 pm 
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Uberdude wrote:
lovelove wrote:
Lecture 18

Invasion after joseki (Part 2)


In the 2nd variation, white r9 will often be better than s8 as it also connects but stops black playing r9 himself to build some outside influence.

R9 instead of S8 is a outdated Japanese joseki, which is now considered inferior, from modern research.

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 Post subject: Re: How to Become a Dan
Post #43 Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:21 am 
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lovelove wrote:
Uberdude wrote:
lovelove wrote:
Lecture 18

Invasion after joseki (Part 2)


In the 2nd variation, white r9 will often be better than s8 as it also connects but stops black playing r9 himself to build some outside influence.

R9 instead of S8 is a outdated Japanese joseki, which is now considered inferior, from modern research.


Can you please explain the change in understanding?

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 Post subject: Re: How to Become a Dan
Post #44 Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:58 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
lovelove wrote:
Uberdude wrote:

In the 2nd variation, white r9 will often be better than s8 as it also connects but stops black playing r9 himself to build some outside influence.

R9 instead of S8 is a outdated Japanese joseki, which is now considered inferior, from modern research.


Can you please explain the change in understanding?

Check my PM.

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 Post subject: Re: How to Become a Dan
Post #45 Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:10 am 
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No, tell everybody.

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 Post subject: Re: How to Become a Dan
Post #46 Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:15 am 
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From the PM, it seems lovelove misunderstood me. He thought I was suggesting the following play at r9 for black rather than the nobi to the second line. my understanding of this move is that it can be playable, but it makes white get stronger on the outside so the second line move should be considered the default best move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c White stronger as q10 sente
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


What I was suggesting was r9 for white in place of s8 when black connects in the corner on the outside, allowing the s6 descent in sente:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c My suggestion
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 3 2 X 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X 4 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


q8 and s8 are now miai, so white is connected. The advantage of this move over s8 is that black can less easily do something useful with his r8 stone, as shown in the next diagram where he builds influence (and white increases his territory in return). A downside of r9 is that if black plays s8 even though you capture the 2 stones it is only one eye so if black gets stronger around this aji could be annoying, but s8 similarly is not an unconditional 2 eyes though the eyespace does seem slightly better to me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black can build influence later if white s8
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 X 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 8 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 3 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


P.S. Also s4 at t4 is better yose.


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 Post subject: Re: How to Become a Dan
Post #47 Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:09 pm 
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Lecture 19

Something short :mrgreen:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c A shining move!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: How to Become a Dan
Post #48 Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:32 pm 
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Uberdude wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c My suggestion
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 3 2 X 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X 4 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Yes, :w10: is what I learned from a Korean haengma book.

In anycase, the push at :w2: is what's most important. It's a move to remember.

lovelove wrote:
Lecture 19
Something short :mrgreen:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c A shining move!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It's even more fun when you use it to kill a group :mrgreen:

Teaching game I remember:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , O X O O X , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . O X . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


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 Post subject: Re: How to Become a Dan
Post #49 Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:37 pm 
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Lecture 20

Trick move (Part 1)

*Always look at the former branch first.*



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Post #50 Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:26 am 
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Lecture 21

Trick move (Part 2)

*Always look at the former branch first.*



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Post #51 Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:50 am 
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Lecture 22

Trick move (Part 3)

*Always look at the former branch first.*



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 Post subject: Re: How to Become a Dan
Post #52 Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:10 am 
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Lecture 23

Trick move (Part 4)

*Always look at the former branch first.*



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Post #53 Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:28 am 
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Lovelove, thank you again for posting this series. A question about 22: is it "no ko" in the sense that no threat is big enough, or in the sense that w can't win the ko by connecting?

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 Post subject: Re: How to Become a Dan
Post #54 Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:30 am 
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Lecture 24

Trick move (Part 5)

*Always look at the former branch first.*



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 Post subject: Re: How to Become a Dan
Post #55 Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:35 am 
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jts wrote:
Lovelove, thank you again for posting this series. A question about 22: is it "no ko" in the sense that no threat is big enough, or in the sense that w can't win the ko by connecting?

You are right in both. In addition, that ko is a direct ko for black, but approach ko for white; white needs to ignore black's ko threat twice to win the ko.

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 Post subject: Re: How to Become a Dan
Post #56 Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:03 am 
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Lecture 25

4-4 corner attachment joseki (Part 1)

*Always look at the former branch first.*



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Post #57 Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:08 am 
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I have just posted five lectures in a row. This should be catching up my promise, "one lecture a day", and also realized it is not possible to be continued. :scratch:

Changing plans, I will post these lectures in Monday, Wednesday, Fridays. Sorry!

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 Post subject: Re: How to Become a Dan
Post #58 Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:40 am 
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lovelove wrote:
I have just posted five lectures in a row. This should be catching up my promise, "one lecture a day", and also realized it is not possible to be continued. :scratch:

Changing plans, I will post these lectures in Monday, Wednesday, Fridays. Sorry!


That's more than adequate, lovelove. I can't speak for everyone, but I personally love your short lectures. I'll be looking forward to some more. Thank you very much!! :D


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 Post subject: Re: How to Become a Dan
Post #59 Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:30 pm 
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lovelove wrote:
I have just posted five lectures in a row. This should be catching up my promise, "one lecture a day", and also realized it is not possible to be continued. :scratch:

Changing plans, I will post these lectures in Monday, Wednesday, Fridays. Sorry!

Nothing to apologize for! Love reading the lectures!


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Post #60 Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:14 pm 
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