It is currently Mon May 22, 2017 11:57 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: JoeS1's Opinion on Teaching
Post #1 Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:40 am 
Tengen

Posts: 4357
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 574
JoeS1 wrote:
unless they can afford to get lessons from Pros regularly.


Lessons from professionally teaching, amateur-ranked players are more affordable. If their regular lessons are still too expensive for a pupil, occasional lessons are an option, especially such exhibiting most relevant kinds of mistakes.

Quote:
I feel like I have major weaknesses when it comes to the fundamentals that could be addressed but no one, even when I've played pros have been able to tell me what my weaknesses are and what I should work on. They just tell you 1-2 mistakes you make and that's it.


It sounds as if you have been expecting professional service from free helpers. (If you did pay for teaching and got these lessons, you must have had incapable teachers.) When I teach go professionally, I point out every kind of mistake. Since go is richer than can be seen in just a few games, no teacher can immediately detect all your mistakes. However, e.g., when I get a sample of three SGF games to be reviewed for, say, EUR 32, I identify and classify the most important types(!) of mistakes, and typically there are a few dozen types. If I could identify only 1 or 2 mistakes per game, I would not call myself a teacher. I hope your experience has been from free helpers only!

You should be aware, however, that commenting is time-consuming, e.g., 90' per game. If you let a free helper comment for only a few minutes, he can identify and mention only a few mistakes, or as many as you grasp while listening and asking. Maybe some such teachers want to stress only the by far most important mistakes so that you would learn from them? Some pupils learn from each mentioned mistake quickly but other pupils do not invest the effort and recall only a few most important mistakes. Restricting mistakes to the most important ones is not always a fault - it might be good intention of a teacher. Teachers should convey their intention. E.g., if a teacher shows that life and death reading for an example group was insufficient, he should sometimes better also explain that diligent study of life and death would be the pupil's urgent task.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: JoeS1's Opinion on Teaching
Post #2 Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:54 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 23
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 3
No i was expecting professional service from pros I've played and was paying many years ago and help on how to improve, besides just the same stuff you hear which is do life and death to improve reading, review games, etc. Finding out what weaknesses I have or more specific ways of improving. Any concepts I should study, or what books to get, etc. I wasted quite a bit of money on books I didn't really need and ended up being redundant with books I already had.

I don't have a lot of experience from people teaching for free. Maybe a few reviewed games here and there when I was about 20-30kyu. But I never really remember getting help when I was SDK.

I just posted some of my ideas and thoughts on what could help the community and potentially help more SDKs and Dans who are stalling and have been for a long time to improve. Having a stronger online community and more reviews of books from strong players, so we know which books to look at getting if we're poor, and more in depth and higher level books would help tremendously.

I understand in Europe Go is a little more popular and there might be more clubs or more popular clubs. I was just talking more about the online community and my experience with it and how to keep people from getting frustrated and quitting, which is what I did. Although it might have been helpful having friends in person to play. I had trouble making friends online, and ultimately became frustrated as I didn't know how to improve. I typically made dumb mistakes and couldn't seem to stop it. But having said all this, it doesn't matter too much anymore as now that I'm older, I find nothing really excites or interests me anymore and I don't enjoy doing anything. I don't really connect with people anymore even in person. But if I was younger maybe it would be different. That's why I ultimately posted that message so it could possibly help people and the community.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: JoeS1's Opinion on Teaching
Post #3 Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:46 pm 
Tengen

Posts: 4357
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 574
JoeS1 wrote:
i was expecting professional service from pros I've played and was paying many years ago


Still I am unsure if I understand you correctly: you were paying professional players for teaching and...

Quote:
They just tell you 1-2 mistakes you make and that's it.


...they told you only 1 or 2 mistakes per game?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: JoeS1's Opinion on Teaching
Post #4 Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:28 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 23
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 3
RobertJasiek wrote:
JoeS1 wrote:
i was expecting professional service from pros I've played and was paying many years ago


Still I am unsure if I understand you correctly: you were paying professional players for teaching and...

Quote:
They just tell you 1-2 mistakes you make and that's it.


...they told you only 1 or 2 mistakes per game?

Yeah they were playing multiple games typically, but even when playing one on one occasionally that's all I remember him doing. This was years ago and in person. It's just paying pros and not getting much help kind of soured me on the whole teacher thing. If a pro you play can't help you how can you trust anyone else to be able to? That's the way I saw it at the time.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: JoeS1's Opinion on Teaching
Post #5 Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:50 am 
Tengen

Posts: 4357
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 574
Now I understand your frustration:)

There is, however, a possibility that it was the teacher's most basic teaching mode consisting of just playing teaching games. Would he have taught you better if you had chosen a higher fee option?

There were some professionals whose teaching consisted of playing games. Was Shusai such a teacher only? Or is that just a myth?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: JoeS1's Opinion on Teaching
Post #6 Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:39 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 23
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 3
I don't remember if there was a way to pay them more. Not sure why paying them more would change anything. I remember asking what things I need to do to improve at least once or twice I didn't get an answer even after explaining the way my games are and what I thought my weaknesses were. The fact is there are just bad teachers out there in all things. They don't care, or they don't know know how to teach. This was no different.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: JoeS1's Opinion on Teaching
Post #7 Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:02 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 1174
Liked others: 224
Was liked: 313
Rank: 5d
GD Posts: 1000
To me it seems possible that the pro you were playing, in a simultaneous game, hadn't seen enough of your play to point out what your habitual mistakes or weaknesses are. I attended a pro commentary session at a Go Congress where someone ranked 6k gave the pro a game record for comments and the pro was flustered because there were too many mistakes, almost every move was in some way a mistake. In such a situation the pro would likely select one or two critical moves to comment on.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group