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 Post subject: Lesson from "Sairereborn", 8d (aka "Calme") on KGS
Post #1 Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:54 pm 
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Hello guys,

I just took a 5 lessons package from this french amateur player (8d KGS).
I create an account to share my really bad experience with this teacher.

- During our first lesson he used a guest account to play with me because he was playing with another student at the same time...He had 2 disconnections so we have to redo the game twice.

- During his 2 disconnections he proudly said to me that he was on the phone because he had to order pizza and to guide the delivery boy... This can be fun for 5 minutes...but it takes around 20 minutes...+ the time require to redo our game twice...so 30 minutes.

Finally over the 1h30, we played during 50 minutes and I had a commentary of only 10 minutes.

After the lesson I told him that I was not happy about the lesson and I felt that this was not a "professional" behavior.
I asked for a refund for the remaining 4 lessons. But he said no.
Some people also told me that he is running crazystone against some low/middle kyu student but I cannot confirm this.

Anyway, it is a cold case now. I just wanted to share this sad experience...I know that an amateur is an amateur but still...

Cheers,

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 Post subject: Re: Lesson from "Sairereborn", 8d (aka "Calme") on KGS
Post #2 Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:53 am 
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Wow, so sad you have had this terrible experience. I know nothing about Go teachers but I'm sure not all amateurs are this unprofessional. It's not a matter of being pro or amateur, is about being responsible or an cad. Good to know his name, I hope you find someone that really wants to teach Go.

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 Post subject: Re: Lesson from "Sairereborn", 8d (aka "Calme") on KGS
Post #3 Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:59 am 
Tengen

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Sorry to hear this. Do you know his real name? There aren't many French players that strong. As a matter of principle I would recommend you don't take lessons from someone who does not happily give their real name as it's something of reputational insurance. Also beware people make fake/blitzy high-dan KGS accounts for selling teaching.

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 Post subject: Re: Lesson from "Sairereborn", 8d (aka "Calme") on KGS
Post #4 Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:09 am 
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How much did you pay? Did he say beforehand that he would give simultaneous lessons?

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 Post subject: Re: Lesson from "Sairereborn", 8d (aka "Calme") on KGS
Post #5 Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:15 am 
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Thanks for the support...
He didn't give me his real name unfortunately. I should have been more suspicious.
He said that he is living in the USA now.

The lessons were quite cheap: 35 euros the 5 lessons.
And he didn't say he was gonna do simul. On top of that he played with a guess account (to play two games...because he was already giving a lesson...)

After long discussions I got a partial reimbursement of 25 euros. Better than nothing...

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 Post subject: Re: Lesson from "Sairereborn", 8d (aka "Calme") on KGS
Post #6 Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:51 am 
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Hello,
as a french go teacher and player, I feel terrible about your experience.
I've been looking for proofs the last few months because of the appearance of new french "strong dan" on KGS, like Saireborn, that may use bots in order to play and teach. It seems now his account has been unranked.

You can be sure that he is neither a strong or famous french player unfortunally, so I hope you'll get full refund, I'll try to find his real name.

For proof, he also had the amazing idea to let the sound of the bot on this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKXesWEoRBU , where you can hear that all his moves are synchronized with the sound of the bot in the back. Yes, it should have been muted... It's even more frightening that this guy actually has a youtube channel. :shock:

There are many strong amateurs that give lessons and are good teachers, but you should always get a name and identity before taking any lessons.
Hope you will not lose faith in Go and lessons !

A few years ago I would never believe this could happen one day...bots are crazy strong now...

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Tanguy Le Calvé aka Welvang. Go teacher from France!
http://www.tanguy.le-calve.fr/en/home/


This post by Welvang was liked by: ez4u
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 Post subject: Re: Lesson from "Sairereborn", 8d (aka "Calme") on KGS
Post #7 Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:42 am 
Lives with ko

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Woah, that's interesting. I'm not totally sure, but it's pretty close to the sound effect that CrazyStone makes for its PC version. It has the right timbre, I think. The pitch seems slightly different, although that might be an artifact of the video recording. I wonder if he's going to edit or take down the video or something - the sound is at least consistent with mirroring moves into another app, and the fairly regular spacing of delay time between the two sounds is suggestive of a computer.

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 Post subject: Re: Lesson from "Sairereborn", 8d (aka "Calme") on KGS
Post #8 Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:22 pm 
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Well, definitely a bot, and pretty sure it is june version of Zen.
Don't worry about the video, I already downloaded it just in case it is removed :)

I wonder what will be the policy about this in the next few months/years...especially for online tournaments with cashprize.

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http://www.tanguy.le-calve.fr/en/home/

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 Post subject: Re: Lesson from "Sairereborn", 8d (aka "Calme") on KGS
Post #9 Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:47 pm 
Lives in sente

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Is their email BadukNation@gmail.com ? If so I think I can give you their name ... at least i seem to remember somebody from GO.ON forum using this email in a blog

-edit: actually no, I confused -Nation and Kingdom-

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 Post subject: Re: Lesson from "Sairereborn", 8d (aka "Calme") on KGS
Post #10 Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:36 am 
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:roll: je comprends qu il puisse tricher avc un bot

seulement il y a un hic , pour qu il puisse gagner contre un 7d ou + , il faut exactement les machines qu' utilisent leurs createurs a savoir processeur xeon ou autres qui valent des milliers d euros ( rien que celui que utilise le bot crazy stone deep lerning ) rien que les 2 processeurs valent 5 a 6000 euros , je compte pas les cartes graphiques , memoires et autres

j ai quelqun qui a crazy stone deep leaning sur son pc , un processeur i5 donc moyenne gamme et si vous mettez un temps de 10 minutes pour la partie , je peux vous assurez que le bot ne vaut pas plus que 3-4 kyu allez soyons gentils 1 dan.

en plus il prend le temps d expliquer certains coup sur youtube tout en jouant contre un 6 ou un 7 dan kgs ( joueurs ou bot ) dans des parties tres courtes donc peut etre qu il triche mais pas avec un bot sinon je met au defi a quiquonque de le prouver le contraire ( et je ne le defend pas non plus !!!) , voila juste pour dire qu avec un bot , il faut une sacré puissance de feu et pas un simple pc meme avec un i7 avec des gtx1080 et 32 go de memoire vous n y arriverez pas !!!

cordialement

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 Post subject: Re: Lesson from "Sairereborn", 8d (aka "Calme") on KGS
Post #11 Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:41 am 
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Hm je pense que tu n'as pas trop suivi les dernières avancées cette année...
le simple crazystone sur Ipad possède un niveau environ 5d kgs à son maximum, et celui sur pc est monté jusqu'a 7-8d kgs.
Mais dans le cas ici, il utilise Zen qui est encore plus fort que crazystone. Il doit surement avoir une bonne machine, mais pas besoin d'un truc fantastique pour obtenir ce niveau. C'est plutôt pour Zen19L 9d kgs par exemple qu'il faut une machine très puissante.

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 Post subject: Re: Lesson from "Sairereborn", 8d (aka "Calme") on KGS
Post #12 Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:26 pm 
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Joueur français ici aussi..

Bref.

Ce joueur me met en rogne, j'ai vu deux-trois de ses parties commentées par curriosité.
Quand il parle, c'est pour faire du pur remplissage ou pour parler "d'escaliers" ou de "filet" -Qui dit ça sérieux?- et parfois quand il tente de faire quelques lectures simples par lui-même afin de fournir une crédibilité à sa chaîne, et bien il se trompe lamentablement. C'est ridicule :mrgreen:
https://youtu.be/lKXesWEoRBU?t=9m10s Oui en effet il peut pas, mais ta séquence pue mon vieux :scratch:
J'ai vraiment envie de faire couler sa chaîne qui ne présente aucun intérêt vu les explications qu'il fournit, mais je me dis que ce genre de mec va devenir extrêmement commun avec l'avénement du computer go, donc à quoi bon?

Tl;dr for english speakers: Saireborn is waaaay too weak to give lessons. Plus, the way he speaks about his opponents in his games during his "commentaries" is almost indecent considering his personnality and his actual strength. Hope he gets bashed and forgotten, because he's showing some top-notch disgusting behavior here.

https://youtu.be/O5LAZSGa9m8?t=20m11s

Here's a funny quote from him : "I think I never lost playing blitz... Mmmh.. Maybe one time? Okay I probably lost, but not many times. Against 90% of my opponents I won." :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Lesson from "Sairereborn", 8d (aka "Calme") on KGS
Post #13 Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:00 am 
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KGS: Bakemono
Thank you for your support guys! (et merci aussi aux joueurs français ça fait du bien de ne pas se sentir seul!).
Thx also for checking his "teaching with bot" method. I definitely should have been more suspicious.
His email is indeed baduknation@gmail.com.

No worries, Go is still my passion and I will continue to play :)

Best wishes for 2017!

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