It is currently Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:08 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Looking for a teacher to outline a syllabus I can follow.
Post #1 Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:10 am 
Beginner

Posts: 4
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 3
As the title says, I am looking for a syllabus of sorts to begin my study of the game.

I'd like you to break down a weekly schedule based on hours I can commit each day(which will always be the same) so I have a set structure to follow and know how to break up my time to the various aspects of the game from playing and what to study in particular.

Thanks!


This post by ZenithUK was liked by: Jika
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Looking for a teacher to outline a syllabus I can follow
Post #2 Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:59 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9135
Liked others: 2794
Was liked: 3093
Welcome! :)

At this stage of your go career, you should probably spend around half your time playing the game. You should also review your games, not every game, OC. When I was in training, which I did for a couple of years as a dan player, I spent about ¼ of my time playing and an equal amount of time reviewing my own games. I spent about ¼ of my time playing over pro games, and ¼ of my time doing problems. That was me. Everybody is different. :)

You will also want to spend some time reading books. There is a lot of good material out there, now. In the AI era, books on the opening and especially joseki are outdated. Pro games are probably your best resource for studying them. Books on handicap go are still worthwhile.

There is a lot of good material at Sensei's Library, and, if you can still get it, Bruce Wilcox's Go Dojo is a valuable resource.

From time to time post a game or two here for review. Several people are quite willing to help out. :)

Good luck!

_________________
The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins

"Once in a very great while his eyes light up for a moment, and he says "Whee!" very quietly."
— Lion Miller


This post by Bill Spight was liked by 2 people: Jika, ZenithUK
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject:
Post #3 Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:26 pm 
Honinbo
User avatar

Posts: 8725
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 326
Was liked: 2033
GD Posts: 312
Hi Zen,

What Bill said. Also, please see PM.
Thanks.


This post by EdLee was liked by: ZenithUK
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Looking for a teacher to outline a syllabus I can follow
Post #4 Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:42 pm 
Beginner

Posts: 4
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 3
Bill Spight wrote:
Welcome! :)

At this stage of your go career, you should probably spend around half your time playing the game. You should also review your games, not every game, OC. When I was in training, which I did for a couple of years as a dan player, I spent about ¼ of my time playing and an equal amount of time reviewing my own games. I spent about ¼ of my time playing over pro games, and ¼ of my time doing problems. That was me. Everybody is different. :)

You will also want to spend some time reading books. There is a lot of good material out there, now. In the AI era, books on the opening and especially joseki are outdated. Pro games are probably your best resource for studying them. Books on handicap go are still worthwhile.

There is a lot of good material at Sensei's Library, and, if you can still get it, Bruce Wilcox's Go Dojo is a valuable resource.

From time to time post a game or two here for review. Several people are quite willing to help out. :)

Good luck!


Thanks Bill!

So far as analysis goes, is there any general questioning I should go through when trying to understand what has happened and why? Otherwise I fear I may simply be re-watching the game unless I know what I am actually looking at.

Thanks!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Looking for a teacher to outline a syllabus I can follow
Post #5 Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:48 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 147
Liked others: 51
Was liked: 36
Rank: EGF 3d
KGS: gennan
Tygem: gennan
OGS: gennan
Kaya handle: gennan
ZenithUK wrote:
So far as analysis goes, is there any general questioning I should go through when trying to understand what has happened and why? Otherwise I fear I may simply be re-watching the game unless I know what I am actually looking at.


For analysis of your games, you usually need another person who is stronger than you. If you don't have access to such a person, you can post your games on this forum or elsewhere, like gokibitz or reddit and other players will give some explaining comments.


This post by gennan was liked by: Jika
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Looking for a teacher to outline a syllabus I can follow
Post #6 Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:40 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9135
Liked others: 2794
Was liked: 3093
ZenithUK wrote:
So far as analysis goes, is there any general questioning I should go through when trying to understand what has happened and why? Otherwise I fear I may simply be re-watching the game unless I know what I am actually looking at.


If you are talking about reviewing your own games, as gennan says, it is helpful to do so with another person. That person does not necessarily have to be strong, it can be your opponent. :)

I will have more to say later, but for now let me quote myself. Play around with positions.

From another post:

Bill Spight wrote:
Now, playing around is something that children do. That may be a big clue, because children are the best learners in the world. :)

When I was a kid I dealt out bridge hands, bid them, and played them out, imagining what each player would do if they did not know what was in the other hands, as I did. I am sure that I made a lot of horrible bids and plays, but I think that it paid off. I started playing occasionally in the local duplicate bridge club when I was 13 -- not on school nights, OC --, and in the summer after eighth grade I remember hesitantly playing a difficult two diamond contract. The local life master was kibitzing, and after that he told people that I was the best player in the club at the play of the cards. Looking back, he was probably right, except for him, OC. :)

When I was learning go in my early 20s I set up and played around with positions on the go board, mostly from my own games. Nobody told me that I was supposed to do everything in my head. ;) I think I benefited from that.

{snip}

I especially encourage beginners to do as I did, to play around with positions from their own games. They can learn a lot by doing so.

Finally, let me end with this quotation from chess grandmaster Nigel Davies:

Nigel Davies wrote:
It really doesn’t matter what you study, the important thing is to use this as a training ground for thinking rather than trying to assimilate a mind-numbing amount of information. In these days of a zillion different chess products this message seems to be quite lost, and indeed most people seem to want books that tell them what to do. The reality is that you’ve got to move the pieces around the board and play with the position. Who does that? Amateurs don’t, GMs do.

(Emphasis mine) From http://rlpchessblog.blogspot.com/2011/0 ... rtesy.html

_________________
The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins

"Once in a very great while his eyes light up for a moment, and he says "Whee!" very quietly."
— Lion Miller


This post by Bill Spight was liked by: Jika
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Looking for a teacher to outline a syllabus I can follow
Post #7 Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:10 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 142
Liked others: 145
Was liked: 14
First, Zenith, thank you for asking this question.

The answers are very helpful to me too.

I can relate to wanting to have some kind of curriculum to follow, because I'm finding it confusing to decide what to learn and how.

I'm using Cosumi to play (tiny!) games and replay them.
The advantage for me is that Cosumi will make the same moves when I play a new game, so I can try to choose better moves.

Question: Why are Joseki and openings dated?
("81 little lions" deals with openings on a 9x9 board; is it misleading to study them?)

Question: How should I as a beginner be able to analyse Pro games?
(I'm doing basic tsumego with tsumego pro app and the built-in tsumego of Hactar light, and very often I'll find myself wondering why the opponent would for heaven's sake play that move if it seems to make things worse. Only after that, I see that there was an atari or two groups in danger of being separated. Will pro games not be much too advanced for me to understand?)

Sorry, Zenith, I hope it is okay that I ask these questions in your thread!

_________________
I'm a complete beginner. Please be patient if my questions are stupid.
Please also keep in mind that I'm not a native speaker of English: I might seem impolite or unclear without intending to. Thanks for all help, it is much needed and much appreciated!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Looking for a teacher to outline a syllabus I can follow
Post #8 Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:39 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1444
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Liked others: 204
Was liked: 638
Rank: Bel 2d KGS 3d TG 4d
KGS: Artevelde
Tygem: Knotwilg
Hi

I have tried on two occasions to set out a plan for someone else to become strong. I'm willing to try that again but I also want to learn from those previous times. It seems that inevitably a study plan, or a curriculum if you wish, puts an enormous stress on the person learning Go.

I wrote about that on my Sensei's homepage:

- Advice to beginners https://senseis.xmp.net/?DieterVerhofst ... oBeginners
- Ideas on improvement https://senseis.xmp.net/?DieterVerhofst ... mprovement
- Basic laws of gamesmanship https://senseis.xmp.net/?DieterVerhofst ... mesmanship

all of that leading to

Full Training Program https://senseis.xmp.net/?DieterVerhofst ... ingProgram

This starts out with developing fighting spirit:

1) Don't resign - play 10 blitz games where you focus on not resigning but instead find opportunities to come back into the game. Likewise, don't expect your opponent to resign but find and reduce opportunities for them to come back.
2) Don't follow the opponent around - play two serious games where you assess every move by the opponent on the need to answer it. Should you answer it locally or can you play elsewhere. If you tend to be overly confident, overcompensate by answering when in doubt. If you tend to be overly cautious, play elsewhere when in doubt.


This post by Knotwilg was liked by 2 people: Bill Spight, Jika
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Looking for a teacher to outline a syllabus I can follow
Post #9 Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:49 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9135
Liked others: 2794
Was liked: 3093
Jika wrote:
Question: Why are Joseki and openings dated?


Because the bots have pushed the clock a couple of centuries ahead in human time.

Quote:
("81 little lions" deals with openings on a 9x9 board; is it misleading to study them?)


Even if they contain mistakes, you can learn something if you study them.

Quote:
Question: How should I as a beginner be able to analyse Pro games?


Don't set yourself the goal of analyzing them. Study them. For instance, try to guess the next move. Also, you may be able to analyze some tesuji and endgame plays. Play around with positions. :)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins

"Once in a very great while his eyes light up for a moment, and he says "Whee!" very quietly."
— Lion Miller


This post by Bill Spight was liked by: Jika
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Looking for a teacher to outline a syllabus I can follow
Post #10 Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:38 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1430
Liked others: 718
Was liked: 474
Rank: AGA 3k KGS 1k Fox 1d
GD Posts: 61
KGS: dfan
I also urge you to be careful in your studying. I have found, perhaps unintuitively, that beginners who are super serious about studying and mastering the game are more likely to burn out quickly than ones who just enjoy playing. The more seriously you take the game at the beginning, the more likely you are to become frustrated, or treat it as an intellectual field of study rather than as a game to play. The most important thing you can do at the start is play a lot and enjoy it.


This post by dfan was liked by: Jika
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject:
Post #11 Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:31 am 
Honinbo
User avatar

Posts: 8725
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 326
Was liked: 2033
GD Posts: 312
Hi dfan,
Happy summer. :)
Quote:
likely to burn out quickly...
Very kind advice.

:twisted:'s advocate:
Personal values can be a very tough call;
the shorter one's Go endeavor, the longer one's other life adventures. :)


This post by EdLee was liked by: Knotwilg
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Looking for a teacher to outline a syllabus I can follow
Post #12 Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:30 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 142
Liked others: 145
Was liked: 14
@ BillSpight:

I don't know how the bots learn.
So, is it because they never learned Joseki they do not play traditional human style, so no need to learn standard play if they don't care about standards?
Will a human (DDK, SDK) play joseki??

@dfan:
You are correct, at least in my case.
I'm copy-pasting posts from here, and the most valuable advice seemed to me to enjoy playing, studying etc.
I'm having the thought this is a life long journey, not a day trip!

But as it is good to know how to pack your luggage for the journey, I'm looking for advice from other travellers.

I have got plenty here, but I often find it hard to structure what I do and not get lost in detail.
But... maybe getting lost in details is a good way to learn Go too ;-)

_________________
I'm a complete beginner. Please be patient if my questions are stupid.
Please also keep in mind that I'm not a native speaker of English: I might seem impolite or unclear without intending to. Thanks for all help, it is much needed and much appreciated!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Looking for a teacher to outline a syllabus I can follow
Post #13 Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:18 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9135
Liked others: 2794
Was liked: 3093
Jika wrote:
@ BillSpight:

I don't know how the bots learn.
So, is it because they never learned Joseki they do not play traditional human style, so no need to learn standard play if they don't care about standards?
Will a human (DDK, SDK) play joseki??


It is not that the bots don't care about standards, exactly. But, OC, they don't. It is that they have made a lot of joseki obsolete. On their own, modern humans, with the ability to see the game records of top players, make joseki obsolete on the time scale of decades. The bots have made so many joseki obsolete that it will take time for the books to catch up. In addition, they have indicated that some accepted opening plays are mistakes, and others are questionable. It may take even more time for books on the opening to catch up, because the human writers have to understand why the bots reject certain human plays. Are they really mistakes, or is it a matter of style? Besides which, the bots are not infallible. ;)

Human SDKs and DDKs will play joseki to a fault. If they know one joseki but not another one that applies to the current situation, they will often not even consider making the play in the right joseki. And often the correct play is not joseki. Even worse, they may consider the best play and reject it because "I don't know that joseki." That is a terrible excuse for making the wrong play, unless you can afford to make inferior plays. In the end, you have to rely upon your own judgement. At best, making plays because they are joseki simply delays the day of reckoning.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins

"Once in a very great while his eyes light up for a moment, and he says "Whee!" very quietly."
— Lion Miller


This post by Bill Spight was liked by: Jika
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group