Nothing like jumping into the middle of a maelstrom with my first post on this board, but I have found this thread quite interesting. A few things:

1) I assume John Fairbairn's assertions (that the ebook market is small) is limited in scope to go ebooks. Even if so, the fact that the overall market for ebooks *IS* replacing printed books should be sign that the future for smaller niche books, such as go books, may be in e-format. I do not think printed books will ever die, but given the recent news stories (http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/148875/ ... -books.htm) that Amazon now sells more ebooks than all printed books combined, it would seem wise to start thinking that ebooks are not just an ugly step child of the real thing. I know Amazon may not be the largest book seller in the world, but they are one of (if not the one) largest in North America, and I think the trend is set.

2) Not sure where all the hatred towards the ipad, and condescension of ipad users, is coming from. 10 years from now will the iPad still be on top of the mobile computing devices? I have no idea. I do believe the iPad has allowed mainstream users a glimpse into the future of mobile computing. Does it deserve all the credit for that? Of course not, it is standing on the shoulders of others (I have been wanting a slate tablet PC that ran as well ever since the first tablet PC came out a decade ago, and these are all just evolutions of the computer). But it does represent the current device that is enabling the mass market to see new possibilities. And it is creating a new way of consuming (and generating) media. If you don't like it, don't use it. No need to look down on others that do.

As a newcomer to the Go world, I hope the old standbys in the go industry embrace mobile technology. The Kindle (which has been replaced with the iPad) got me reading again. I had ready maybe 2 books a year for the last few decades, now in the last three years I have read over a hundred books. Similarly, after being a strong tournament chess player, I am starting to embrace another strategy game because of my mobile device. Though I admit, chess was natural to me, Go is proving to be a very joyful frustration.

And to be somewhat on topic....at what point in time would I find OFvsNF a valuable read in my go education?

In terms of education it may take a while, but if it's anything like the other books by the same author, it should prove enjoyable to read nevertheless. I've taken this thread as a reminder to update my Go books reviews on my Sensei's library page (http://senseis.xmp.net/?crux) where I've added sections for 9-dan Showdown, Kamakura, Final Summit and The Go Consultants.

Bravo John Fairbairn for this book and the Miijin's Retirement Game book. In some ways Shusai seems to have been a controversial character, witness Go Seigen's comment that he was "a scoundrel". But I came away from these books with an increased appreciation for Shusai. In particular I had not played through many other games involving him (the Insha game and a couple of games with Shuei) and I was impressed with how well he played. He was already an old man when the game with Go took place yet he played wonderfully in the long sequence of moves after the great tesuji at White 160, move after move finding the only move that would keep him in the game. This impressed me since apparently most of the old Meijins rarely played competitively after receiving the title so I would expect a decline in competitive strength. And the retirement game! Here was a frail old man with seriously debilitating heart disease and yet he mustered enough strength to play so well against one of the top young players of the time.

The problem with Slate & Shell's Smartgo Books is, at least for me, the fact that they are not complete. As far as I can tell, each of their ebook versions is a stripped down version of the respective paper book. For me at least there is no reason to buy these since I want the full content, so I have to buy the paper book. If the two editions were identical, I'd go with the Smartgo book.

Smartgo books also really need a client/player for Android and Windows. It's a wonderful design and they work fantastically, but I'm not sure if the typical Go enthusiast is all that likely to get a fairly expensive device from Apple (restrictive, closed concept, expensive). Some of us have one, but there is possibly more overlap with the Android world. (And sadly I lately use it far more for playing board games like Neuroshima Hex, New Colony, Samurai, Scrabble and Carcassonne than anything related to Go!)

Two points.

1. The idea behind this, which you are entitled to disagree with, but the publisher is just as entitled to disagree with you, is that the e-books serve as a way of advertising the paper books, an investment already made before SmartGo Kifu came along and an investment worth protecting in this way, especially as the state of advertising outlets for go books is so abysmal.

2. There is a pure e-book I've done (Honinbo Shusai's problem collection Shikatsu Myoki - I regard it as a minor venture). It should be ready to hit the market soon, but parts of SmartGo Kifu need rewriting to cope with some it. It's good that Anders is willing to put even more work into it, but it does indicate the fragility of the e-book operation (and perhaps makes it less likely that we'll see an early Android etc version).

So far, though of course it may that already owning a paper version has put off some buyers, I have seen nothing in the sales figures that would persuade me to give up on paper books. Shikatsu Myoki (Wonderful Workings in Life and Death) is one opportunity for all you iPadders to prove me wrong

A) That is sad news if most or all the Smartgo books are incomplete. I see John's post as to why that may be but it is still sad from a consumer's standpoint. Outside the niche of go books, I don't think crippled/incomplete ebooks worked so not sure why go publishers think they will here. Bummer.

B) Why sadly that you are playing those board games on I presume an iPad? Those are some fun games and a couple let you interact with your opponent. Are you comparing them to Go as some people would compare a romance or detective novel to one of the classics?

C) Why single Apple out for being expensive and restrictive? Android is proving to be restricted in areas as well, though not as much a closed app store system as you point out (but this can be a plus too). Other major manufacturers (Motorola with the Xoom, RIM with the Playbook, HP with Touchpad) with tablets are basically the same price, so how is it you see the iPad as the only premium device?

Though I am pretty sure this will be over my Go skill level, please let us know when it is out and I will help contribute to the cause.

I agree with you that it's absolutely the publisher's call whether or not to take this approach. I only commented to explain why at least I, as someone who has a capable device, is embracing new media formats and doesn't mind spending money on Go-related stuff, doesn't buy Slate and Shell's ebooks. (I do buy the full content paper books, but have no need for a 20-40% ebook version in addition.) In my opinion, you can't expect satisfying or even high sales numbers if the only editions offered are watered down versions of the original paper book. Why would someone who is interested enough (in Go books in general and the specific title in particular) to spend money on Go literature not want to get the complete book?



Well, it's still an "early adopter" market right now. You do get one sale for your latest book from me, and it would have been an ebook sale if the complete ebook version had been available. Since it wasn't, it was a paperbook sale. I'm not fanatical enough to skip the book just to make a point. I think it will take quite some more time before publishing a book exclusively as an ebook will be more lucrative than going for the paper version.

I'll get the L&D book, though.

Just the ones from Slate & Shell. Those from other publishers are the full versions of the books, as far as I know. I actually see ebooks as a great way for authors to self-publish their works. This may not be desirable for every writer, especially for established authors like John, but I have picked up some fiction ebooks from self-publishing, new writers that were quite fantastic and less expensive than publisher-published titles.



It was a tongue-in-cheek "sadly". I had bought the iPad2 primarily for Go studying purposes, and now find myself using it mostly to play all sorts of other (board) games on it. It's still a great study tool, but also distracts from said study quite intensely. But as you said, some of those games are fantastic and I'm especially having an enjoyable time with Neuroshima Hex. No regrets!



The Xoom and comparable tablets cost roughly the same, but offer better hardware specs, and iPhones are clearly more expensive than many Android phones that would have enough horsepower to run Smartgo Books. Looking at my provider, it's very unlikely that I'd ever opt for an iPhone if I were in the market for a smartphone (my regular mobile phone works just fine), but there are numerous Android alternatives with much lower monthly costs (or one-time expense). The iDevices also aren't very open in terms of connectivity and extendibility: no USB port, no interfacing with PC software other than iTunes, no SD/MiniSD slots, no way to directly access (remove, add or modify) data on the device, etc. (unless you jailbreak the device, but then you lose the ability to purchase IAPs, which would probably mean no Smartgo books). Android-based devices don't have these limitations, at least not in general.

Strictly from a consumer perspective, I do believe the iDevices offer far better and far more apps, which is why I went with an iPad instead of a Xoom/etc. Standardized hardware, even if it's lacking in some areas, is a great benefit in this regard. But if I were more into tinkering, wanted to code my own stuff or tweak the device, I would have made a different decision. (SmartGo Kifu was a major contributor to this.)

Has Anders ever said he was planning a phone version of SmartGo Books? It seems that the form factor might be too small.

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It is on the iPhone, and it works much better than I expected.

It's already iPhone compatible. It is small; the iPad is much better for anything like that. Though to be fair, with a retina display iPhone/iPod touch, it does look pretty good. It's more the text that suffers on a small screen.

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Glad to hear not all the ebooks are crippled. I have the beginners one (since, heh, I am a beginner at Go) and am further along in it than the paper version of one (different book) I purchased months ago.

I haven't played Neuroshima Hex much though I recognize it as a game I will love. I just am not one who enjoys going against the computer. The developer has mentioned on his blog he will bring multiplayer to NH, and I hope it is both real time and asynchronous (like Carcassonne). Actually I wish there was an asynchronous Go client besides Boardz too. DGS has one but the push notifications are non existent.

And I would go back to a non-smartphone if I didn't rely on lists so much (task list, grocery list, etc. ), though email in a pinch on a smartphone is nice.

I don't see the extra specs of the droid tablets as that big of a deal. From a cost perspective they couldn't be that expensive to put in a device componet wise, Apple just chose to design them out. I can see a big techie or developer wanting a more hackable platform, and maybe more Go players are techies, but the general consumer is likely better served by Apple's well integrated system.

But go Droid, competiton is usually good for the consumer. I actually have a soft spot for Palm (er, HP) since I had one of the original Palm Pilots and begrudgingly traded in a Treo for an iPhone when the App store finally came out and the PalmOS was dead.

BTW, I am bspooky in carcassonne (and boardz too) if you are ever looking for a game.

Hi John,

I recently purchased your book. I'm having difficulty understanding your short book explanation of "harmony breaking." If possible, could you please give some more details and examples of Shuho fuseki method (outlined in Hoen Shimpo) vs. the Shusai "harmony breaking" fuseki method?

I hope it's okay if I post some more questions here should they arise reading rest of the book.

Thank-you,
Logan

I'm sorry, but I think it's unreasonable to ask for that kind of after-sales service. For the already extensive work in this book I will receive from you (some time next year) about one dollar or less. I don't think that gives you any extra entitlement on my time. Please try to see it from my point of view.

I'm not asking for an economic service. Rather, it is intended to be viewed in the same manner as sending an academic an e-mail inquiring about an unclear concept in their book. Which, from my experience, most are very happy to elucidate. Although I asked for elucidation in the form of more details and examples, the means by which you desire to elucidate are ultimately, and respectfully, up to you.

Out of respect, I try to first assume that any conceptual confusion I may encounter in an author's text is a result of my own inability to understand a concept than the author's lack of conceptual or written clarity.

With these ideas in mind, hopefully I can look forward to a reevaluated reply.

Every author has his own ideas of how openly or extensively he discusses topics related to his books. Some authors do not discuss at all, others discuss a lot. Whichever, there is some limit an author has to set for himself for time or financial reasons. The limit may be reached at unexpected places but basically it is the author's free decision. Readers have unlimited curiosity while authors have limited ressources. This can lead to some (still) unanswered questions. Maybe some will be answered in later books, maybe some never.

You'd probably be better off asking the community your question. Then, anyone (including the author) can try to explain. No doubt many people will be willing to offer advice. At the moment your question is phrased, albeit very politely, as a demand to the author.

An academic is paid a salary (and a pension), often by the public purse, to be available to answer questions. Furthermore, his book may be intended to boost his career propsects as well as his bank balance. None of this applies to me.

Apart from doing books that are not really economically justified, I have just (for one example) spent two solid days working on Chen's go history and all that work has been offered free to readers here, so I don't think I'm being mean. What has logan offered the go community (or me)? Now that he has repeated his request, I have to say I find it rather offensive.

JF, we all thank you for bringing us so much interesting information on our favorite game and we do enjoy your books very much. Thank you for all you have done for the community. Looking forward to more books from you in the future.

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Go is such a beautiful game.