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 Post subject: Re: Desktop or Notebook?
Post #21 Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2022 4:26 am 
Judan

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If I choose such, it would be the MacBook Pro 16 M1 Pro for its best battery life among the MBPs.

While it is said to be quiet, some testers have found up to 45dB under load. I cannot know what noise level KataGo would produce. Given that I would accept up to 43dB in a notebook, maybe this could be achieved. So for some, it might be a suitable choice.

However, the notch is absolutely unacceptable for me. Never will I buy any device with a notch / hole / drop in the display. Such equals a destroyed display on manufacturing. The following considers MBP M1 if it did not have a notch.

Apple has betrayed trust by its iCloud terms, which it tries to impose on my iPad at least daily and it punishes me for denying by prohibiting updates via WLAN. These terms claim to grant Apple the right to use all my local files and give them to anybody in the world. Although illegal and criminal, this is what the terms say. I do not buy a new device from such a company even if MBPs should be affected less thus far.

Apple's repair prices and customer disrespect in some warranty cases are beyond words. Apple's anti-repair legislation lobbying is untolerable. Again, Apple does not deserve to earn any more money from me.

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 Post subject: Re: Desktop or Notebook?
Post #22 Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:25 pm 
Judan

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Nvidia contributes greatly to the decision-making;) Price increases:

3080 10G -> 4080 16G = +72%

3070 -> 4080 12G = +80%

I do not know if AMD is any good.

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 Post subject: Re: Desktop or Notebook?
Post #23 Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:58 pm 
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There could be months before you can buy 40x0 cards. It was announced this week, the release date that I found is 12th October but in the past it has taken the OEM card manufactures months to make new cards available. With the chip shortage it could potentially be 6-12 months but we will see.

The way that Nvidia operates is that they make chips and a very small number of cards. The bulk of the cards are made by OEMs that often have different idea, from that of NVIDA, about costs and availability. If the 30x0 market is generating revenue for the OEMs then they can't be expected to introduce the next generation cards in large numbers, instead they might make them available for very large amount of money :D

My 3080 laptop version is doing great things for me, every single day :)

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 Post subject: Re: Desktop or Notebook?
Post #24 Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:14 pm 
Judan

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kvasir wrote:
My 3080 laptop


If I may ask, what laptop model, which CPU, what speed / noise mode, what noise level, and how would you subjectively characterise the noise?

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 Post subject: Re: Desktop or Notebook?
Post #25 Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:49 am 
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It is a Lenovo Legion R9000K which I think was only available in China but I think it pretty much the same as Lenovo Legion 7 which was released at least half a year later.

I am already at the stage that I don't know the specs anymore, so I am just reading what I can find
  • AMD Ryzen 9 5900HX with Radeon Graphics 3.30 GHz
  • 64 GB ram
  • NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Laptop GPU
  • Other stuff

It is built like an oversized vacuum cleaner head but it looks cool. One side of the base is open with two fans that such air in, the air is then blown out the sides. I am impressed that it is often silent but frequently it will sound like a vacuum cleaner but a lot quieter, really. It is an annoying noise because it is high pitch that doesn't always blend in with other sounds. That is how it sounds, as for how loud then I'd say it is like a vacuum cleaner thorough a door at the worst but there are three settings (that you cycle through with shift-Q): quiet, auto and performance. The quiet setting mostly kills the noise, even when working the GPU, but it is not completely quiet. I live in a quiet place now but before I lived in a place that needed a constant AC running for me to stay alive and that device is louder than the laptop. The noise from the laptop will also disappear in a large enough room or a coffee shop. Basically when it comes to sound it is complicated.

I have no idea what the dB would be, I think it is a useless measure unless you actually have device to measure it. In my experience the dB level in a room is often dominated by one device like an AC or a refrigerator, but even moderate rain can outweigh anything that is in the room and rain makes pleasant sound while many artificial devices make unpleasant sounds.

Basically, if the main concern is noise and performance then I'd really recommend a desktop tower instead and you can put it under the table. If the main concerns include the possibility of taking the computer somewhere, then that is what laptops are for.

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 Post subject: Re: Desktop or Notebook?
Post #26 Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:59 am 
Judan

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Very interesting, thank you!

Suppose performance mode has 100% speed. Can you specify how much of that speed remains in a) Auto and b) Quiet modes?

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 Post subject: Re: Desktop or Notebook?
Post #27 Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:25 pm 
Judan

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Notebookcheck tested the Legion 7 variant of your notebook and wrote:

AMD Ryzen 9 5900HX 87.8 W PL2, 87.8 W PL1
NVIDIA RTX 3080 Laptop 165 W TDP (incl. 15 W Dynamic Boost)

Idle 26 / 30 / 35 dB(A)
Load 40 / 50 dB(A)

Witcher-3 gaming has 46 dB(A), maximum load of both CPU and GPU has 50 dB(A). High fan speeds involve a whistling. A headset is recommended for gaming.

So their measurements agree to your subjective description. While it is not a silent notebook, for 88 W PL1 and 165 W GPU it is reasonable compared to similarly equipped fast notebooks.

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 Post subject: Re: Desktop or Notebook?
Post #28 Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:00 pm 
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I don't know exactly what the different modes change but I suspect it has mostly to do with the fans. The silent mode seems to simply run the fans at a lower speed, the auto mode seems to change the fan speeds aggressively and the performance mode seems to run the fans at a higher speeds but actually if there is very little running then the computer will be silent in this mode too. Probably there is also some change in how aggressively the CPU and other components step up their clock rate or turn off unused things, but components will do this automatically anyway. Components like the CPU have very advanced power consumption control and heat throttling, while components like RAM and GPUs don't. Possibly, simply controlling the fan speed is the greater part of the effect but I just don't have a way to tell. I mean the fan speeds often change noticeably but the CPU clock speed might not when I cycle the modes and I don't know if I should describe that as the usual behavior or not, and I don't thing the "performance" mode disables throttling.

It is nice to be able to almost silence the laptop with Fn+Q (I said Shif+Q before but it is the the Fn key instead) and not know exactly what it does.

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 Post subject: Re: Desktop or Notebook?
Post #29 Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:42 pm 
Judan

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Quite a few newer "gaming" notebooks allow manual setting of fan curves as temperature over fan speed or such in some Balanced or Custom mode.

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 Post subject: Re: Desktop or Notebook?
Post #30 Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:19 pm 
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I think the laptop came with some branded Lenovo programs to change different settings. I installed a fresh OS when I got the laptop and don't have most of the pre-installed programs, a few were installed anyway by Windows Update but the upgrade to Windows 11 removed a almost all of this. Either they are not ready and might be installed with a later update or the system is not recognized by Windows Update as "needing" whatever branded programs are available. Preinstalled programs annoy me and I am happy to not have them, but then I don't know what additional settings they might have.

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