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 Post subject: Google's AlphaGo defeats Fan Hui 2p, 19x19, no handi, 5-0
Post #1 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:55 am 
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Incredible news, I really don't quite believe it... But it looks pretty legit so far.

http://wayt.synology.me/wordpress/1348-2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-dKXOlsf98
http://deepmind.com/alpha-go.html
https://storage.googleapis.com/deepmind ... ing-go.pdf

AlphaGo played a 5 game match with Fan Hui and won 5-0. 19x19 board, no handicaps(!)

From the video it sounds like their major innovation is to use two neural nets instead of just one. One is a 'policy network' to select move candidates, this is what Facebook did. But then they created a 'value network' that evaluates leaf nodes. Other bots had been using Monte Carlo playouts for their evaluation.

- Kim Myungwan will be doing a review of the AlphaGo vs Fan Hui 2p games on the AGA Youtube this Friday.
- Google DeepMind, the British artificial intelligence company which developed AlphaGo, has issued a $1 million challenge to Lee Sedol from South Korea, the top player in the world for much of the last 10 years, to play in March.


Last edited by yoyoma on Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:49 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Google's AlphaGo defeats Fan Hui 2p, 19x19, no handi, 5-
Post #2 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:58 am 
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Quite amazing news. And in March, Yi Se-tol will play against AlphaGo.

I really hope this technology will trickle down to the desktop or to mobile devices.

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 Post subject: Re: Google's AlphaGo defeats Fan Hui 2p, 19x19, no handi, 5-
Post #3 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:05 am 
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This is huge. I hope somebody with Nature access can give us some details about under what conditions the games were played.

EDIT: Never mind the paper is available for free from Google's website:
http://deepmind.com/alpha-go.html
https://storage.googleapis.com/deepmind ... ing-go.pdf


Last edited by Codexus on Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Google's AlphaGo defeats Fan Hui 2p, 19x19, no handi, 5-
Post #4 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:06 am 
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yoyoma wrote:
Incredible news, I really don't quite believe it... But it looks pretty legit so far.

http://wayt.synology.me/wordpress/1348-2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-dKXOlsf98
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v5 ... 16961.html (actual paper is behind a paywall)

AlphaGo played a 5 game match with Fan Hui and won 5-0. 19x19 board, no handicaps(!)

From the video it sounds like their major innovation is to use two neural nets instead of just one. One is a 'policy network' to select move candidates, this is what Facebook did. But then they created a 'value network' that evaluates leaf nodes. Other bots had been using Monte Carlo playouts for their evaluation.


:O

What????

Ok if it defeats Lee Sedol then :salute:

Google is my hero!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUbqykXVx0A

Another video.


Last edited by Krama on Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Google's AlphaGo defeats Fan Hui 2p, 19x19, no handi, 5-
Post #5 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:07 am 
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Game records are linked from http://deepmind.com/alpha-go.html

Reactions from Fan Hui and Lee Ha-jin at http://www.nature.com/news/go-players-r ... at-1.19255

I hope they don't pull an IBM, see it just as a publicity stunt or a rung on the ladder and shelf it after proving that it's better than humans. Which is to say, I want to use this software to analyze my games! :)


Last edited by Marcel Grünauer on Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Google's AlphaGo defeats Fan Hui 2p, 19x19, no handi, 5-
Post #6 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:24 am 
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It's an interesting experience seeing videos of Fan Hui 2p and Matuesz Surma 1p playing go on national television. I think that comes rather close to a satisfying verification.

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 Post subject: Re: Google's AlphaGo defeats Fan Hui 2p, 19x19, no handi, 5-
Post #7 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:28 am 
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From the paper, the game time was 1 hour main time + 30s byo-yomi. This is no blitz trick.

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 Post subject: Re: Google's AlphaGo defeats Fan Hui 2p, 19x19, no handi, 5-
Post #8 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:32 am 
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Elom wrote:
It's an interesting experience seeing videos of Fan Hui 2p and Matuesz Surma 1p playing go on national television. I think that comes rather close to a satisfying verification.


Where did you see Mateusz Surma playing on national TV?

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 Post subject: Re: Google's AlphaGo defeats Fan Hui 2p, 19x19, no handi, 5-
Post #9 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:40 am 
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I'd be curious to know how much they had to pay Lee to participate in this.

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 Post subject: Re: Google's AlphaGo defeats Fan Hui 2p, 19x19, no handi, 5-
Post #10 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:42 am 
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I read $1 million.

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 Post subject: Re: Google's AlphaGo defeats Fan Hui 2p, 19x19, no handi, 5-
Post #11 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:55 am 
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One stat from someone who worked on the project (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10982008): they can give Crazy Stone a 4 stone handicap and win 80% of the time. I'd still suppose they're an underdog against Lee Sedol, but maybe not a hopeless one?

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 Post subject: Re: Google's AlphaGo defeats Fan Hui 2p, 19x19, no handi, 5-
Post #12 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:01 pm 
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Marcel Grünauer wrote:
I really hope this technology will trickle down to the desktop or to mobile devices.


I asked Demis Hassabis about processor power, and it might be 200 cores. So, a little while yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Google's AlphaGo defeats Fan Hui 2p, 19x19, no handi, 5-
Post #13 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:03 pm 
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Marcel Grünauer wrote:
Elom wrote:
It's an interesting experience seeing videos of Fan Hui 2p and Matuesz Surma 1p playing go on national television. I think that comes rather close to a satisfying verification.


Where did you see Mateusz Surma playing on national TV?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35420579

Ranked 3rd on top stories, but those ranks change all the time I guess (a lot like my ranks).

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Last edited by Elom on Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Google's AlphaGo defeats Fan Hui 2p, 19x19, no handi, 5-
Post #14 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:08 pm 
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Super exciting news, both because of the AI development and also because it may raise some hype and awareness about Go in the US.

I couldn't resist looking up Fan Hui on Remi's goratings: http://www.goratings.org/players/1480.html

He's at 2916 elo, and Lee Sedol is at 3515, so by rating Fan Hui would have about a 3% chance of beating Lee Sedol. This seems about in line with the team jubango Lee played last year, where he beat top westerners at 2 stones. So beating Fan Hui is definitely an accomplishment, but Lee Sedol represents a significant step up in difficulty for AlphaGo.

That said, I doubt anyone predicted we would see a match like this so soon, Go AI is developing incredibly quickly. Is it too much to ask that google would make the AI open source? I'll have to read the paper...

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 Post subject: Re: Google's AlphaGo defeats Fan Hui 2p, 19x19, no handi, 5-
Post #15 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:14 pm 
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The games.




Attachments:
AlphaGo_FanHui_game_3.sgf [1.14 KiB]
Downloaded 1579 times
AlphaGo_FanHui_game_2.sgf [1.22 KiB]
Downloaded 1571 times
AlphaGo_FanHui_game_1.sgf [1.6 KiB]
Downloaded 1585 times

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 Post subject: Re: Google's AlphaGo defeats Fan Hui 2p, 19x19, no handi, 5-
Post #16 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:16 pm 
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Codexus wrote:
From the paper, the game time was 1 hour main time + 30s byo-yomi. This is no blitz trick.


According to the paper, Fan Hui won two out of 5 informal games played at shorter time controls. If anything, it seems the computer plays better at standard time controls.

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 Post subject: Re: Google's AlphaGo defeats Fan Hui 2p, 19x19, no handi, 5-
Post #17 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:16 pm 
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4th and 5th




Attachments:
AlphaGo_FanHui_game_4.sgf [1.12 KiB]
Downloaded 1590 times
AlphaGo_FanHui_game_5.sgf [1.4 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Google's AlphaGo defeats Fan Hui 2p, 19x19, no handi, 5-
Post #18 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:21 pm 
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Charles Matthews wrote:
Marcel Grünauer wrote:
I really hope this technology will trickle down to the desktop or to mobile devices.


I asked Demis Hassabis about processor power, and it might be 200 cores. So, a little while yet.


According to the paper, the distributed version of AlphaGo was running on 1202 CPUs and 176 GPUs. Their non-distributed version was running on a machine with 48 CPUs and 8 GPUs. So yeah, this isn't off the shelf hardware. But if CPU power is the only limiting factor, I think we can expect some VERY strong programs available for home computers in the near future.

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 Post subject: Re: Google's AlphaGo defeats Fan Hui 2p, 19x19, no handi, 5-
Post #19 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:28 pm 
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I just briefly went through all five games. My observations
- Fan Hui's openings are very traditional and peaceful. AI probably knows all these openings very well from past pro games. So there is nothing human player can gain at this stage. It remains to be seem how the AI reacts to the more 'modern' and 'imaginative' ways younger Chinese and Korean players play (for example how would the AI reacts to situations as in this game: http://www.go4go.net/go/games/sgfview/52548 (moves 28 through 68).
- Fan appears to make a number of mid-game mistakes. But so does the AI player (for example, one obvious mistake was move 60 in game 3).

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 Post subject: Re: Google's AlphaGo defeats Fan Hui 2p, 19x19, no handi, 5-
Post #20 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:37 pm 
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macelee wrote:
I just briefly went through all five games. My observations
- Fan Hui's openings are very traditional and peaceful. AI probably knows all these openings very well from past pro games. So there is nothing human player can gain at this stage. It remains to be seem how the AI reacts to the more 'modern' ways younger Chinese and Korean players play (for example how would the AI reacts to situations as in this game: http://www.go4go.net/go/games/sgfview/52548 (moves 28 through 68).
- Fan appears to make a number of mid-game mistakes. But so does the AI player (for example, one obvious mistake was move 60 in game 3).


It definitely seems to pull openings from pro games, which makes sense. It played the large avalanche perfectly, and the joseki after microchinese - split - attach that Fan Hui used both times. I also noticed AlphaGo played nirensei both games as black, making a sanrensei for one of them. It's interesting to me because black nirensei isn't that popular with pros today.

AlphaGo does vary its openings at least some, since it faced an identical position and chose the avalanche for one game and the hane for the other.

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