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 Post subject: What you like / dislike about Leela 0.8.0?
Post #1 Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:48 am 
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For example:
I really like the gpu support :clap:
How many gpus and cpus can Leela use?

But the heatmap needs a lot improvements.

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 Post subject: Re: What you like / dislike about Leela 0.8.0?
Post #2 Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:48 am 
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Hi,

What I like the most with Leela, per order of preference:
  1. There is a gtp version. For me, this is THE killer feature (and plenty of other informations are available through its stderr)
  2. Leela is so strong, because... yeah... GnuGo as well has a gtp mode :)
  3. There is a dedicated Linux version, no need for me to use wine
  4. Leela is free (but not opensource)

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 Post subject: Re: What you like / dislike about Leela 0.8.0?
Post #3 Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:33 am 
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pnprog wrote:
Hi,

What I like the most with Leela, per order of preference:
  1. There is a gtp version. For me, this is THE killer feature (and plenty of other informations are available through its stderr)
  2. Leela is so strong, because... yeah... GnuGo as well has a gtp mode :)
  3. There is a dedicated Linux version, no need for me to use wine
  4. Leela is free (but not opensource)


I love killer features :D
It makes me really happy to find moves which Leela 5 dan(ok it's even stronger on my hardware) hasn't seen or evaluated as not so good in the first moment.

It would be nice to get an improved heatmap for example:
3 different colors for the 3 best Win% moves.
3 different colors for the 3 best Net Prob% moves.
And one golden color for the move which has the best Win% + Net Prob%
Of course only for the 5 or 10 first moves which have the highest simulations.

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 Post subject: Re: What you like / dislike about Leela 0.8.0?
Post #4 Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:42 am 
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On 20000 rolls (I use medium GPU) how strong is this version compared to EGF player?

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 Post subject: Re: What you like / dislike about Leela 0.8.0?
Post #5 Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:20 am 
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The site is down for so long that Leela had already released version 0.90 which is two stones stronger than 0.80.

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 Post subject: Re: What you like / dislike about Leela 0.8.0?
Post #6 Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:35 am 
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Have you seen LeelaX on KGS, please release .......
I am very exited on this one.

Very cool job on Leela by Gian-Carlo.

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 Post subject: Re: What you like / dislike about Leela 0.8.0?
Post #7 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:42 am 
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Gomoto wrote:
Have you seen LeelaX on KGS, please release .......
I am very exited on this one.

Very cool job on Leela by Gian-Carlo.


SGF files have:

GTP Engine for LeelaX (white): Leela version 0.9.0. I will resign when I have lost. If you are sure you are winning but I haven't resigned yet, the status of some groups is not yet clear to me. I will pass out the game when I have won. You can download the latest stable version at https://sjeng.org/leela

Version number is the same as the new public release.

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 Post subject: Re: What you like / dislike about Leela 0.8.0?
Post #8 Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:52 am 
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Leela is great.

Single most important feature still missing: variation tree.

I have to use two go programms for now, when I analyze with Leela: One for the variations, and Leela running on the side used to reload the sgf for each variation :-)


This post by Gomoto was liked by: dfan
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 Post subject: Re: What you like / dislike about Leela 0.8.0?
Post #9 Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:11 am 
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Gomoto wrote:
Leela is great.

Single most important feature still missing: variation tree.

I have to use two go programms for now, when I analyze with Leela: One for the variations, and Leela running on the side used to reload the sgf for each variation :-)


A variantion tree is also very important.
But even more important for me is to have a super heatmap. I mean you can compare it with Zens heatmap. Heatmap ranking: Leela 1 kyu vs Zen 10 dan.

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 Post subject: Re: What you like / dislike about Leela 0.8.0?
Post #10 Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:02 am 
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I feel Leela 0.9 is stronger than Zen 6 because its neural net is superior. The win percentages of the neural network seem to help a lot. Leela has got a very good intuition.

I do not feel Zens Heatmap is superior to Leelas move probabilities.

One feature of Leela I like a lot: Click in the analysis window on a line and the variation is shown with move numbers on the board. (an option to show the numbers & stones would be nice).

An further option to show the 5 best moves colored by winning percentage instead of move probability would also be good.

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 Post subject: Re: What you like / dislike about Leela 0.8.0?
Post #11 Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:29 am 
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Gomoto wrote:
I feel Leela 0.9 is stronger than Zen 6 because its neural net is superior. The win percentages of the neural network seem to help a lot. Leela has got a very good intuition.

I do not feel Zens Heatmap is superior to Leelas move probabilities.

One feature of Leela I like a lot: Click in the analysis window on a line and the variation is shown with move numbers on the board. (an option to show the numbers & stones would be nice).

An further option to show the 5 best moves colored by winning percentage instead of move probability would also be good.


But Zens heatmap has a structure (different colors).
Leelas move probabilities has only 3x the same color
Everytime with a 1% difference.
And you can see that 10% of the whole board are marked in this color.
Maybe this is a bug and he doesn't know how to solve it?

The analysis window feature is great.
Zen has an option to show the numbers on the stones. Should be also made for Leela.

You last point is a MUST HAVE.
But better to have this 5x for Win% and 5% for best human pros moves. With the option to switch both or one of them, on and off.

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 Post subject: Re: What you like / dislike about Leela 0.8.0?
Post #12 Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:56 am 
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Hi Gomoto,
Gomoto wrote:
One feature of Leela I like a lot: Click in the analysis window on a line and the variation is shown with move numbers on the board. (an option to show the numbers & stones would be nice).

An further option to show the 5 best moves colored by winning percentage instead of move probability would also be good.
You may want to check my other thread in the announcement forum. Maybe one step closer to what you needs.

Best regards,
pnprog

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 Post subject: Re: What you like / dislike about Leela 0.8.0?
Post #13 Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:53 am 
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What I like about Leela? Pretty much every thing.
What I don't like about Leela? This:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ White's dead at top right... Really??? :shock:
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . O O X . P P P |
$$ | . . O X X X X X P |
$$ | . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X X |
$$ | O O O X X X O O O |
$$ | X O X . . X O . . |
$$ | X X . X X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O . |
$$ -------------------[/go]

Oh, but this is what the 0.10.0 version thinks... Don't know about the 0.8.0 one, sorry... -_-

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 Post subject: Re: What you like / dislike about Leela 0.8.0?
Post #14 Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:45 am 
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Keep in mind that Leela is only strong on 19x19. On all board sizes other than 19x19, it's fairly weak as it uses no neural nets, and the author seems to be completely focused only on improving the 19x19 play for now.

Of course, on 19x19, the playouts will make the same mistake as they do on the small board and probably judge white's stones there as dead. However, possibly the neural net will have learned better and will help compensate. Overall, Leela is pretty bad at understanding semeai, seki, and local tactics because its search and playouts are poor, far worse than either of Zen 6 or Crazystone. All of its strength comes from the things that neural nets are good at - whole board judgment and shape instinct in open-space fights.

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 Post subject: Re: What you like / dislike about Leela 0.8.0?
Post #15 Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:33 am 
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So...
I tried laying out different seki and dead groups on a 19x19 board using Drago, to see if the board size would change anything.

Here's the sgf in case anyone would want to try this on his own Leela:


Then I opened the file on Leela and asked her to score it. Here's what she thinks is alive and dead:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]]$$ Test on 19x19 -_-
$$ ------------------
$$ | X . P X . X O . O . Z . Z O X . P P P |
$$ | X . P X X X O O O O Z Z Z O X X X X P |
$$ | X X P X . X X X X X O O O O O O O X . |
$$ | O O X X X X . . . . . . O . O . O X X |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . O O O O O O O |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O |
$$ | P P X X . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . . . O X . P . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X |
$$ | X X O X O O . . . . . . O O O O O X O |
$$ | O O O O . O O O O O O O O Z Z Z O O O |
$$ | Z Z Z O O O Z Z Z Z Z O Z Z . Z Z O . |
$$ | . . Z O . O Z . O . Z O Z . O . Z O . |
$$ -------------------[/go]

Anyway, my conclusion is that Leela knows MOSTLY what a dead group is (she missed the black one on the right :scratch: ), but doesn't understand seki AT ALL :shock:
Don't get me wrong, I still like Leela a lot (she's my master after all :D) but, err... I wish she hadn't that kind of awkward shortcoming... :-?

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