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 Post subject: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #1 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:02 pm 
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I have surveyed and tested many open source go AI over past couple of months. Tried face book dark forest go and was not impressed.
I would say the Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI as of today.
Here is Rayon Bot that I set up at DGS:
http://www.dragongoserver.net/userinfo.php?uid=97868

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #2 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:13 am 
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Hi,

I've tried looking for any information on the Rayon bot. Do you have a web link to the source code or it's homepage.

Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #3 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:35 am 
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nasdaq wrote:
Hi,

I've tried looking for any information on the Rayon bot. Do you have a web link to the source code or it's homepage.

Thanks


I placed the link of the source code in the above post, the link to DGS user info, which has the link to source

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #4 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:37 am 
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By my testing, Rayon Bot at DGS can get 5d rank comfortably. It could be higher rank than that, we will see.

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #5 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:48 am 
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Leela just hit 9d on KGS. Is that stronger or weaker?

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #6 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:54 am 
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hyperpape wrote:
Leela just hit 9d on KGS. Is that stronger or weaker?

Short answer: it's stronger
But why compare between non-open source and open one?

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #7 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:58 am 
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pookpooi wrote:
hyperpape wrote:
Leela just hit 9d on KGS. Is that stronger or weaker?

Short answer: it's stronger
But why compare between non-open source and open one?


Not stronger for sure. KGS 9 dan is only equivalent of DGS 6 dan. There is leela old version at DGS only ranked at 3 dan.
There is claim that new leela is 2 stone stronger than old one, which means that only at DGS 5dan level.

My Rayon Bot accept challenge by bot. The leela bot at DGS did not accept games with bot. If leela operator at DGS
is willing to do a even game against my Rayon Bot at DGS, we will know for sure.

Shoreline

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #8 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:01 am 
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Shoreline wrote:
My Rayon Bot accept challenge by bot. The leela bot at DGS did not accept games with bot. If leela operator at DGS is willing to do a even game against my Rayon Bot at DGS, we will know for sure.

I'm not Gian-Carlo, but I'm willing to hook up Leela to DGSlib and run it against Rayon. What kind of hardware and time settings are you thinking of using? :)

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #9 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:27 am 
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Shoreline wrote:
KGS 9 dan is only equivalent of DGS 6 dan.

Doesn't it because DGS maximum is 6d? Are all DGS 6 dan users get 9 dan in KGS (if they play on both server)? If not, what's the lowest KGS rank of 6 dan DGF user?

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #10 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:36 am 
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DGS uses Japanese rules, and Leela uses Chinese ones exclusively, so Leela won't play correctly on that server.

In any case playing random machine A against random machine B for a single game is a pretty silly way to compare two programs which you can just download. There's several tools that can play matches between GTP engines.

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #11 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:05 am 
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apetresc wrote:
Shoreline wrote:
My Rayon Bot accept challenge by bot. The leela bot at DGS did not accept games with bot. If leela operator at DGS is willing to do a even game against my Rayon Bot at DGS, we will know for sure.

I'm not Gian-Carlo, but I'm willing to hook up Leela to DGSlib and run it against Rayon. What kind of hardware and time settings are you thinking of using? :)


My setup for RN3.9 at DGS use 1 Intel PC with dual core CPU and 1 GPU (geForce GTX 1050). I would say if you set up a new leela with single computer with 1 GPU at DGS, the competition is still fair game.

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #12 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:07 am 
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pookpooi wrote:
Shoreline wrote:
KGS 9 dan is only equivalent of DGS 6 dan.

Doesn't it because DGS maximum is 6d? Are all DGS 6 dan users get 9 dan in KGS (if they play on both server)? If not, what's the lowest KGS rank of 6 dan DGF user?


I think at 5d to 6d level at DGS, the sampling size is too small to make correct statement. I used the sanseis web page of go rank comparison to say KGS to DGS conversion

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #13 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:09 am 
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Garf wrote:
DGS uses Japanese rules, and Leela uses Chinese ones exclusively, so Leela won't play correctly on that server.

In any case playing random machine A against random machine B for a single game is a pretty silly way to compare two programs which you can just download. There's several tools that can play matches between GTP engines.


I agree, but it takes resource and time to do the testing. DGS does allow chinese rule as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #14 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:17 am 
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Shoreline wrote:
Garf wrote:
DGS uses Japanese rules, and Leela uses Chinese ones exclusively, so Leela won't play correctly on that server.

In any case playing random machine A against random machine B for a single game is a pretty silly way to compare two programs which you can just download. There's several tools that can play matches between GTP engines.


I agree, but it takes resource and time to do the testing. DGS does allow chinese rule as well.


My point is, Rayon RN-3.9 is well known on strength because it participated in CGOS with ranking second only to Zen. If new leela shows up in CGOS, then we have some basis to compare. Otherwise, it is difficult to say. Internal testing also has its limitation because of hardware, configuration etc set up differences.

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #15 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:39 am 
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pookpooi wrote:
hyperpape wrote:
Leela just hit 9d on KGS. Is that stronger or weaker?

Short answer: it's stronger
But why compare between non-open source and open one?
Because I misread the reference to it being free as it being open.

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #16 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:54 am 
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hyperpape wrote:
pookpooi wrote:
hyperpape wrote:
Leela just hit 9d on KGS. Is that stronger or weaker?

Short answer: it's stronger
But why compare between non-open source and open one?
Because I misread the reference to it being free as it being open.


I think comparing strength between leela and RN3.9 is fine. But the result does not change my title here because leela is not open source go program.

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #17 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:49 pm 
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nasdaq wrote:
Hi,

I've tried looking for any information on the Rayon bot. Do you have a web link to the source code or it's homepage.

Thanks


Home seems to be here:

https://github.com/koban6/Ray

Edit: Ahh it's the zakki branch https://github.com/zakki/Ray, not koban6 branch, as pointed out later in this thread.


Last edited by roy7 on Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #18 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:25 pm 
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pookpooi wrote:
Shoreline wrote:
KGS 9 dan is only equivalent of DGS 6 dan.

Doesn't it because DGS maximum is 6d? Are all DGS 6 dan users get 9 dan in KGS (if they play on both server)? If not, what's the lowest KGS rank of 6 dan DGF user?


I just saw DGS 7d today. The maximum dan at DGS is not 6 dan.

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #19 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:11 pm 
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Shoreline wrote:
pookpooi wrote:
Shoreline wrote:
KGS 9 dan is only equivalent of DGS 6 dan.

Doesn't it because DGS maximum is 6d? Are all DGS 6 dan users get 9 dan in KGS (if they play on both server)? If not, what's the lowest KGS rank of 6 dan DGF user?


I just saw DGS 7d today. The maximum dan at DGS is not 6 dan.


Yes, there are nine 7d's (currently one of them is active) on DGS.

DGS has a nice way to display all top players and their ranks in real life/on other servers:
http://www.dragongoserver.net/users.php ... 1507100060

It seems that 6d is the maximum rank one can claim without playing a game on DGS.

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #20 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:26 pm 
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How to run this bot? I want to test it out.

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