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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #61 Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:18 am 
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Zakki would you be willing to release a binary version linked to the CNTK CPU Only library as well for those of us with AMD cards so we can try Ray out? (Those of us who can't get it to compile. :) )

Thanks!

Edit: Whoops! I was reading it that I had to have an nVidia GPU to even run the program. It works fine without a GPU, just much much slower. Thanks again.


Last edited by roy7 on Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #62 Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:38 pm 
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Can Ray run uses more CPU than GPU?
My computer is i7 -4790 with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 745.
Run test for it with Leela, and the score is 1-1 right now. Leela 0.9 completely destroyed it the second game.

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #63 Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:49 pm 
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kdbaby1412 wrote:
Can Ray run uses more CPU than GPU?
My computer is i7 -4790 with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 745.
Run test for it with Leela, and the score is 1-1 right now. Leela 0.9 completely destroyed it the second game.


Ray 3.10 has won 24 out of 31 games vs Leela 0.9.1.

http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/19x19/cross/Rn.3.10-4c.html

I imagine you'll see Ray pull ahead as you run more tests. What program are you using to play them again each other? GoMill? Or by hand?

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #64 Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:57 pm 
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roy7 wrote:
kdbaby1412 wrote:
Can Ray run uses more CPU than GPU?
My computer is i7 -4790 with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 745.
Run test for it with Leela, and the score is 1-1 right now. Leela 0.9 completely destroyed it the second game.


Ray 3.10 has won 24 out of 31 games vs Leela 0.9.1.

http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/19x19/cross/Rn.3.10-4c.html

I imagine you'll see Ray pull ahead as you run more tests. What program are you using to play them again each other? GoMill? Or by hand?


I did it by hand with default setting. Checking the GTP see that it only run up to 10000 po per move in 10 second.

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #65 Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:20 pm 
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roy7 wrote:
Zakki would you be willing to release a binary version linked to the CNTK CPU Only library as well for those of us with AMD cards so we can try Ray out? (Those of us who can't get it to compile. :) )

Thanks!

Edit: Whoops! I was reading it that I had to have an nVidia GPU to even run the program. It works fine without a GPU, just much much slower. Thanks again.


Could you please explain how to run it without GPU? So far I have downloaded three missing dll's for VC, but still the program stops working at the start.

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #66 Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:23 pm 
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splee99 wrote:
roy7 wrote:
Zakki would you be willing to release a binary version linked to the CNTK CPU Only library as well for those of us with AMD cards so we can try Ray out? (Those of us who can't get it to compile. :) )

Thanks!

Edit: Whoops! I was reading it that I had to have an nVidia GPU to even run the program. It works fine without a GPU, just much much slower. Thanks again.


Could you please explain how to run it without GPU? So far I have downloaded three missing dll's for VC, but still the program stops working at the start.


All the DLLs I needed were in the release zip file. Just run the exe from the directory all the DLLs are in.

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #67 Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:19 pm 
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This is the 3rd game.

Both AI used 10s/ moves. The only command I used for Ray was --pondering. The rest is default.

This game Leela was leading early, then she made mistake in the upper side. Lead to Ray slowly lead.

White = Rayon
Black = Leela
Komi 6.5
W+Res


Attachments:
Rayon 8.0 vs Leela 0.9.sgf [1.83 KiB]
Downloaded 802 times
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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #68 Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:33 am 
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Rayon Bot lost a few games in DGS at 6 dan. I think it is now reasonable to say the strength of this setup (2 cpu, 1 GPU) on 50000
play out mode is roughly at DGS 6 dan. On seconds per move calculation, I checked a few moves, more or less, it will move in around 20 seconds.

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #69 Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:09 am 
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Hey, I see Rayon can organize its timing with "--time" flag. Can you implement this as GTP commands, so we can use the GUIs (Drago here) interface for setting time controls? Thx for the engine.

A comparison Leela/Rayon, how can matches be fair? I'd like to have them calculate a fixed time per move, but Leela has no flag for this. Both have an argument for # of playouts, but Leela needs much more time for calculation if both do same # of playouts...

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #70 Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:41 pm 
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Sneegurd wrote:
Hey, I see Rayon can organize its timing with "--time" flag. Can you implement this as GTP commands, so we can use the GUIs (Drago here) interface for setting time controls? Thx for the engine.

A comparison Leela/Rayon, how can matches be fair? I'd like to have them calculate a fixed time per move, but Leela has no flag for this. Both have an argument for # of playouts, but Leela needs much more time for calculation if both do same # of playouts...


How about "time_left" GTP command as workaround?
Ray ignores "time_settings", but it understands "time_left".

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #71 Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:53 pm 
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Sneegurd wrote:
A comparison Leela/Rayon, how can matches be fair? I'd like to have them calculate a fixed time per move, but Leela has no flag for this.


Leela has full support for time_settings and kgs-time_settings. I'd suggest setting up something simple like:

time_setting 0 30 1

That tells the go engine you are using Canadian time, have 0 main time, 30 seconds per period, and need to play 1 stone per period. This would make Leela think at most 30 seconds per move.

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #72 Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:45 pm 
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Sneegurd wrote:
A comparison Leela/Rayon, how can matches be fair? I'd like to have them calculate a fixed time per move, but Leela has no flag for this. Both have an argument for # of playouts, but Leela needs much more time for calculation if both do same # of playouts...


You can set the playouts for both engines different to make them use roughly the same amount of time. I would play some games and look how much time they used in average for the whoole game. As time and playouts is likely a linear function you can calculate the number of playouts for an average time per move or per game for both engines.

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #73 Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:20 am 
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I think I don't have enough GPU to make this bot as strong as the one on server. For some reason, Ray lost most of its game to Leela on my computer.

I only use GeForce 750 so maybe that's the limited. Even with the i7 4970 won't help.

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #74 Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:42 am 
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kdbaby1412 wrote:
I think I don't have enough GPU to make this bot as strong as the one on server. For some reason, Ray lost most of its game to Leela on my computer.

I only use GeForce 750 so maybe that's the limited. Even with the i7 4970 won't help.


You could simulate a stronger gpu by letting Ray have more thinking time than you give Leela.

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #75 Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:46 am 
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roy7 wrote:
kdbaby1412 wrote:
I think I don't have enough GPU to make this bot as strong as the one on server. For some reason, Ray lost most of its game to Leela on my computer.

I only use GeForce 750 so maybe that's the limited. Even with the i7 4970 won't help.


You could simulate a stronger gpu by letting Ray have more thinking time than you give Leela.


Not sure this will work. In my CPU only testing, on the same number of play outs (50,000 play out), the ray on CPU only is a lot weaker than GPU version.

Ray RN3.9 or RN3.10 strength appears to be highly depending on the GPU quality.


Last edited by Shoreline on Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #76 Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:48 am 
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Dependency on GPU quality is not new. Oakfoam Bot (NG06) also has this issue. NG06 CPU only version in my testing is weaker than GPU version.
But the degradation at NG06 is a lot better than RN3.9, not as dramatic as ray

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #77 Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:58 am 
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Interesting. I assumed cpu version would execute same code, just slower.

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #78 Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:56 pm 
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Does Rayon support the 45% of all users which have an amd gpu?

Can I use 4x xeon cpus with Rayon?
And 2-4 gpus?

Does it work in the Smart Go or Leela gui for windows?


Can someone post here the exe?
No matter if this would be 10% slower on my machine.

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #79 Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:33 am 
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goame wrote:
Can someone post here the exe?
No matter if this would be 10% slower on my machine.

Binaries: https://github.com/zakki/Ray/releases

Yes it works in Smartgo. Use the non GPU binary. EDIT: There is no such binary. I guess as an AMD user you cannot use it.

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 Post subject: Re: Rayon (rn-3.9) is the strongest open source go AI
Post #80 Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:49 am 
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Sneegurd wrote:
goame wrote:
Can someone post here the exe?
No matter if this would be 10% slower on my machine.

Binaries: https://github.com/zakki/Ray/releases

Yes it works in Smartgo. Use the non GPU binary. EDIT: There is no such binary. I guess as an AMD user you cannot use it.


The GPU version will work, it just runs in cpu only mode. And it's 30x-100x times slow per author without GPU.

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