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 Post subject: Games from 10th UEC Cup
Post #1 Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:30 am 
Tengen

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The 10th UEC cup is underway with some very strong programs (no AlphaGo, but Tencent's Jueyi aka FineArt is there and beats top pros on Fox, plus Zen, Ray, CrazyStone...). Some games are on WBaduk, I recorded a few. These are from the preliminary rounds to decide top 16 to play tomorrow. Each round is scheduled to last 1 hour so games are at most 30 minutes each (plus pondering).

Round 2: FineArt killed the whole board of B group bot naiver1. Not worth transcribing.

Round 3: Jueyi crushes CrazyStone.
CS jumps out instead of taking 3-3 to settle in a common joseki at top right, which is okay if you then press and take care of the group, but it makes another group and Jueyi attacks and kills it. Pretty much game over already though CS did get some outside. CS then plays the favourite kyu mistake of hane in 4-4 approach, one-space pincer take corner joseki, Jueyi punsihes with hane not extend. Some more fighting with CS dying.


Round 4: Fine Art crushed (more than CrazyStone, less than naiver1) Maru, a Japanese bot. Not so interesting.

Round 5: Fine Art beat AQ, a Japanese bot.


Round 6: Jueyi vs Rayn (presumably Ray the open source bot).
Interestingly Rayn does 2nd line crawl instead of connect in a common joseki. Then sacrifices corner in top left which seems bad but manages to make a moyo (Jueyi soft?) and then attacks another group to make a nice centre, but tenukis at critical time and Jueyi plays nice shape point to break in and Rayn self destructs with random sentes and game over, though Jueyi does give us a tesuji treat to end.


Round 7: FineArt beat DeepZen (sgf thanks to Platean on reddit)


Last edited by Uberdude on Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:52 pm, edited 8 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Games from 10th UEC Cup
Post #2 Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:37 am 
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JueYi is undefeated winner today, it even beat DeepZenGo in round 7.

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 Post subject: Re: Games from 10th UEC Cup
Post #3 Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:48 am 
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[deleted]


Last edited by Amtiskaw on Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Games from 10th UEC Cup
Post #4 Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:57 am 
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Quote:
Here's Zen vs Fine Art (again via wBaduk).


W16 is the new move. Yu Zhengqi played at sansan in the only other example.

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 Post subject: Re: Games from 10th UEC Cup
Post #5 Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:32 pm 
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Full crosstable of first day results:
https://twitter.com/Remi_Coulom/status/ ... 4473070593
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7NZH3lVoAEhnXS.jpg

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 Post subject: Re: Games from 10th UEC Cup
Post #6 Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:12 pm 
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Now on Chinese media, they are calling question whether deepzengo should be qualified to represent AI in world champianship. Interesting new development in Asia in AI

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 Post subject: Re: Games from 10th UEC Cup
Post #7 Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:16 am 
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So FineArt beat DeepZen in the final to win the cup:



Impressive kill from Zen vs AQ



FineArt vs Rayn. Interesting tenuki fight in first corners (should be good for black I think). Some nice fighting top left but Ray misses a crane's nest tesuji and then clearly game over so plays some nonsense sente and FineArt is merciless and kills another group.


FineArt vs DolBaram, the Korean bot.


Zen vs Many Faces of Go, American bot that was once the strongest in pre neural network and monte carlo days.


Last edited by Uberdude on Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:00 am, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Games from 10th UEC Cup
Post #8 Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:17 am 
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I think FineArt has reached AlphaGo v18 level, very impressive.

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 Post subject: Re: Games from 10th UEC Cup
Post #9 Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:00 am 
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Where is Alphago and Leela?

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 Post subject: Re: Games from 10th UEC Cup
Post #10 Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:07 am 
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pookpooi wrote:
I think FineArt has reached AlphaGo v18 level, very impressive.

I think higher.

Dragonstone wrote:
Where is Alphago and Leela?

Not participating.

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 Post subject: Re: Games from 10th UEC Cup
Post #11 Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:04 am 
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Shoreline wrote:
Now on Chinese media, they are calling question whether deepzengo should be qualified to represent AI in world champianship. Interesting new development in Asia in AI

AlphaGo is also targeted of some Chinese news which think AlphaGo fear JueYi so it didn't participate.

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 Post subject: Re: Games from 10th UEC Cup
Post #12 Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:29 am 
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Why did they (Alphago and Leela) not participate?

Are they afraid that they can lose?

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 Post subject: Re: Games from 10th UEC Cup
Post #13 Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:12 am 
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Well, Leela doesn't need to be afraid to lose, it would not be expected to win (probably about CrazyStone level). It's also (afaik) a one-man-band, so maybe the author doesn't have the time/inclination/money to go to Japan (he is also author of a top chess bot). Or maybe he wanted to but missed the entry deadline or his visa was denied.

As for AlphaGo, they would be expected to win so not much point going, though the recent rise of Jueyi might make that less certain. They seem to like to manage the appearances of AlphaGo carefully, media and PR is important to them, quite understandable as part of one of the world's biggest tech companies.


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 Post subject: Re: Games from 10th UEC Cup
Post #14 Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:39 am 
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Does anyone know what kind of hardware FineArt is running on?

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 Post subject: Re: Games from 10th UEC Cup
Post #15 Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:23 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
So FineArt beat DeepZen in the final to win the cup:


If there is any questionable move of Zen in this final game, I would think move 123. Zen has the tendency to play too conservatively when it is leading. Move 123 may be better to secure the upper right territory. On the other hand, Fine art has very strong capability to live or even kill something in opponent's territory, which gave many pro players a lot of headache. The last game with Zen also shows similar situation.

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 Post subject: Re: Games from 10th UEC Cup
Post #16 Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:19 am 
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ez4u wrote:
Does anyone know what kind of hardware FineArt is running on?

It used to be that participants had to bring their own computers, and were limited to 1000 Watts of power (which could probably get you a few dozen cores and a few graphics cards, maybe similar to what Zen used vs Cho Chikun but not AlphaGo's tensor processing unit behemoth); but now you are allowed to connect to a remote computer (but risk losing on disconnection problems) and I don't know if that has a power limit or if FineArt used this approach.


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 Post subject: Re: Games from 10th UEC Cup
Post #17 Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:58 pm 
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Uberdude wrote:
.......but not AlphaGo's tensor processing unit behemoth).......


That is something we need to always keep in mind. Perhaps more information needed, like is this hardware dedicated to the AlphaGo project or shared with some other projects << if shared, THAT could be an explanation when AlphaGo fails to take part in some tourney >>

Does anybody have information about what FineArt was running on?

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 Post subject: Re: Games from 10th UEC Cup
Post #18 Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:02 pm 
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ez4u wrote:
Does anyone know what kind of hardware FineArt is running on?

I use twitter translation from this https://twitter.com/4Masatsune/status/8 ... 3950361602

Tencent invest 10 billion yens on FineArt?

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 Post subject: Re: Games from 10th UEC Cup
Post #19 Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:06 pm 
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Here's a brief timeline for development of FineArt (Jueyi):

Jan 28, 2016 (when Deepmind announced the match result with Fan Hui and published the paper): Tencent started thinking about the project
Mar 4: First demo is out, reaching about 5k
End of March: The project named weigo becomes formal
End of June: reached 6d amateur
August: played as 虎虎有生气 on Fox Go Server (which belongs to Tencent)
Aug 23: beat a pro for the first time
Sept 4: played as 野狐扫地僧 and won 8 games against Ko Reibun (id: tby)
Nov 1: played as 绝艺(FineArt/Jueyi) for the first time
Nov 2: beat a world champion (Jiang Weijie) for the first time
Nov 19: played with Ke Jie and achieved 1 win and 1 loss
Nov 28: played with Park Junghwan and achieved 5 wins and 1 loss
Since Feb 14, 2017: Achieved 90% winning rate against world/national champions
Mar 3: became the first 10d on FoxGo by winning at least 18 out of 20 recent games against gold/silver 9d's (Ke Jie also became 10d on FoxGo later, but has lost to FineArt for 13 consecutive games)

Performance of FineArt on FoxGo until Mar 18:
388 win/121 loss (76.2%)
as white: 184 win/75 loss (71.43%)
as black: 204 win/46 loss (81.2%)

Reference:
http://tech.qq.com/a/20170319/015726.htm
https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%BB%9D%E8%89%BA


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 Post subject: Re: Games from 10th UEC Cup
Post #20 Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:45 am 
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Thanks for the information gamesorry. Do you have any idea how big the development team is?

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