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 Post subject: 骊龙 (Li Long) on Fox
Post #1 Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 2:47 am 
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There's a player on Fox, 骊龙 (Li Long) that, if I'm understanding correctly, is some (older?) version of Fine Art.

http://weiqi.qq.com/news/8603.html

(I have to rely on Google Translate...)

Apparently it's online 12 hours a day and any professional on the server can play it with a 60 minute time control. Anyway, it's doing pretty well, though many of its opponents are the "lower" pros.

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 Post subject: Re: 骊龙 (Li Long) on Fox
Post #2 Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 8:28 am 
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Thank you, It's fascinating to see these programs play so well.
骊龙's games are a pleasure to watch, even for a weak player like me. These games are fast paced and often aggressive, very nice !

I find it rather bizarre that Google can beat the best players in the world at go, but can't translate anything (I tried to Google-translate http://weiqi.qq.com/news/8603.html in English and in French... The result is really strange :D

Two questions :
Do you know what hardware is used to run FineArt ?
Do you know FineArt's (or Li Long's) approximate Elo ?

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 Post subject: Re: 骊龙 (Li Long) on Fox
Post #3 Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 6:50 am 
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Vargo wrote:

I find it rather bizarre that Google can beat the best players in the world at go, but can't translate anything (I tried to Google-translate http://weiqi.qq.com/news/8603.html in English and in French... The result is really strange :D


Not strange at all. Translating human natural language is a much more difficult problem. Not that hard to get it mostly right, but 90% right comes across to us as terrible.

The problem is that how to properly translate often depends upon the context. Human languages often depend on context to remove ambiguity. Thus:

a) The chickens are ready to eat.
b) The potatoes are ready to eat.
c) The horses are ready to eat.

"a" is ambiguous, "b" is not ambiguous because potatoes don't eat, "c" is ambiguous or not depending on whether in your culture horses are considered edible. In other words, not something that can be determined by word meaning, grammar, and syntax alone.

A good test of a program that purports to translates between human languages is to first translate something for A to B and then translate it back to A. Was the result much like the original. A lot will depend on how closely the two languages are related. We can expect results to be better for English <=> Flemish than for Danish <=> Japanese.


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 Post subject: Re: 骊龙 (Li Long) on Fox
Post #4 Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 3:46 pm 
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Amtiskaw wrote:
There's a player on Fox, 骊龙 (Li Long) that, if I'm understanding correctly, is some (older?) version of Fine Art.

http://weiqi.qq.com/news/8603.html

(I have to rely on Google Translate...)

Apparently it's online 12 hours a day and any professional on the server can play it with a 60 minute time control. Anyway, it's doing pretty well, though many of its opponents are the "lower" pros.

Yes it is an older version of Fine Art. It says so in the caption under the username 骊龙. In the caption it also says that it accepts challenges from any Pro users from 10 to 22 (10 am to 10 pm). 骊龙 is a mythical black dragon in Chinese folklore hence the black dragon avatar in the user info.

Image

By the way Fine Art is also having a series of one hour games against top pros (gold or silver crown accounts) on Fox Server, but unlike Li Long her opponents are prearranged. In the linked Chinese article there is also this interesting graph of Fine Art vs Top Pros games analysis. The top of the graph reads Fine Art vs World Champions. The blue columns represents number of games played. Player names (username in parenthesis) are listed in white color, from left to right are Ke Jie, Gu Li, Chang Hao, Fan Yunruo, Fan Tingyu, and Park Junghwan. Fan Yunruo is not a world champion but included here probably due to the large number of games he played against Fine Art. The last row lists the corresponding win rate of each player. Gu Li owns the highest win rate at 40%, and the sticker underneath 40% translates roughly to "Gu Li sensei you the best!"

Image


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 Post subject: Re: 骊龙 (Li Long) on Fox
Post #5 Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 5:19 pm 
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The graph counts all game since FineArt account created, which I wouldn't recommend because there's big difference between version before UEC cup and after. Anyway right now the new version of FineArt is on top pro marathon challenge (like Master but with longer time, 1 hour + 1 minutes byoyomi) and the record right now is 42 win and 6 lose (this is from my remember yesterday). I think it'll reach 60th game before Wuzhen summit.

Edit: I count again and it's 40 wins and 8 loses, my memory can't be trust!


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 Post subject: Re: 骊龙 (Li Long) on Fox
Post #6 Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 3:29 am 
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thank you wolfking for your translation, it's very helpful and much more interesting than a lecture.

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 Post subject: Re: 骊龙 (Li Long) on Fox
Post #7 Posted: Fri May 12, 2017 2:26 am 
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Quote:
Yes it is an older version of Fine Art

Is there any info in the article about how old it is?

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 Post subject: Re: 骊龙 (Li Long) on Fox
Post #8 Posted: Fri May 12, 2017 8:06 am 
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Amtiskaw wrote:
Quote:
Yes it is an older version of Fine Art

Is there any info in the article about how old it is?

In that article it did mention that the username FineArt started playing on Fox server in November 2016. Presumably that was when Li Long stopped developing?

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