hydrogenpi7 wrote:
Does anyone have more info on this part? I know on their website it stated they are working on releasing a teaching tool.
So my questions are is this a web based tool or a client based that can be downloaded? Given that Google Earth went from exe to in Chrome browser, if I were a betting man I'd guess that this tool will be released on the Google Cloud/ App platform and will require Chrome and a Google account in order to be used.
If that is the case, that also means that it will need an active Internet connection, and possibly that the brains of the tool will not be local client, nor calculated in the browser itself, but instead will be all on Google's backend.
The final concern is if this tool will be truly open to the public, or if it is based on invite only system where its open to top pros and what Google really meant when it says "hopefully" it can impact go community and go fans is that by only allowing top pros to access this web based tool, it is their hope that it can indirectly help give insight and indirectly contribute to the go fans and go community by a sort of "trickle down" effect.
Even if I'm wrong and the tool will be accessible to everyone there is still the possibility that it doesn't really the sort of analysis that most of us think of when we think of a Go program analyzing a move or a position. It is possible that it would be locked down to the library of existing sgf games, so that we can use it to reference any move or any position of any game that has already been played on KGS, OGS, and/or by top pros (GoGoD etc) but it would not allow any arbitrary upload of a sgf so that not anyone will be able to upload their OWN games for move suggestions and /or positional analysis.
I say this because if that were the case, if this tool allows anyone anywhere to query any game and any position, then by mere fact of the tool suggesting a best move or giving a full positional analysis, it would in effect almost be like having a copy of AlphaGo to play with.
But if Google was okay with effectively releasing AlphaGo into the wild, Deepmind wouldn't have been quoted to state there were "compilations" to doing so, and they would have released and published the neural network weights, the training dataset of hundreds of millions of AG vs AG games, the tools and processes used to obtain the weights and the training data, and other things such as the underlining source code of AlphaGo, and other research data.
Instead all we will be getting is a measly 50 self playing games, a new paper in a few months, and a supposedly "tool" for teaching/learning.
So I'm really concerned given that it doesn't seem like Google will ever release AlphaGo in any form, client side, web access, etc that its "learning/teaching tool" might not be what we think or expect or ideally hope it might be?!
Any thoughts.
Okay I reviewed the closing ceremony video on YouTube and re-read the Deepmind's webpage on "AlphaGo's Next Moves" and am of the conclusion that I'm now more and more convinced that this tool, is probably not intended by Deepmind to be a publicly accessible tool for public consumption and use at all.
After re-watching the video here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru0E7N0-kFE and also reading the entire page here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru0E7N0-kFEI don't think the upcoming "AlphaGo Tool" that Google mentioned will actually be accessibly to the public for public use at all.
In reference to the 50 games and the upcoming Ke Jie video analysis and the second research paper etc Google uses the word "release" and "publish" but this was never once mentioned when regarding the "tool".
Deepmind at the end said it had a series of "gifts" for the Go community, and that it was the research paper and the 50 games. But never was the tool directly mentioned.
""We’re also working on a teaching tool - one of the top requests we’ve received throughout this week. The tool will show AlphaGo’s analysis of Go positions, providing an insight into how the program thinks, and hopefully giving all players and fans the opportunity to see the game through the lens of AlphaGo. We’re particularly honoured that our first collaborator in this effort will be the great Ke Jie, who has agreed to work with us on a study of his match with AlphaGo. We’re excited to hear his insights into these amazing games, and to have the chance to share some of AlphaGo’s own analysis too.""It would seem a lot of folks (myself included at first) have "read between the lines" and imagined that this will be a "tool" accessible for "use" by everyone. However it doesn't really mentioned that at all, only that Deepmind is working on a teaching tool, but for all anyone knows this tool could be entirely internal and not meant for public release or access. In particular, it mentions "honored that our first collaborator in this effort will be the great Ke Jie", well this does make it sound like this is going to be an internal tool and not something for wide release to the public. I mean, if this was going to be either a downloadable analysis tool in the form of a client and/or some web based in-browser version that anyone could readily and easily access, why would their "first collaborator" in this "effort" (I'm assuming the effort referring to the creation and use of this teaching tool) need to be with the great Ke Jie? If it was going to be widely released for everyone's use surely this wouldn't be phrased this way? And Deepmind referred to the 50 self playing games as a "gift" to the Go community but never made such a reference with regards to the "tool" itself, which leads me to believe the "tool" is not going to be published or released to the public. Ever heard of the phrase give a man a fish and feed him for a day, but teach him to fish and feed him for a lifetime? If Google considered the 50 games as a "gift" to the Go community, then surely if it were to release such a tool that would be far greater a gift than 50 games, yet the "tool" was never put in the same category.
It also, when doing an linguistic analysis, indicated that Google wrote :
"hopefully giving all players and fans the opportunity to [i]see the game through the lens of AlphaGo."[/i] Note what Google didn't write is " to use the tool" or " to play the game" or "to analysis the game". it merely said it hopes to give all players the opportunity to "see" the game....
Strongly suggesting the tool is not going to be released, or at the very least, there is no strong evidence indicating Google making any form of pledge or statement that there will be such a tool available for the public at large.