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 Post subject: Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Post #21 Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:48 am 
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Krama wrote:
Can someone test Zen 7 vs Leela 11 GPU version?


Code:
Leela-0.11.0-8t1g   3464   198   2017-10-24 21:49:09
Zen-15.3-1c0g   3457   4263   2017-10-25 07:32:31
Zen-15.4-1c0g   3449   922   2017-10-25 07:32:31


Zen should be stronger. Zen is only a little behind when using 1 core, and even if it does not support GPUs then it surely supports more than 1 core?

It does not look like the difference will be big if you have a good GPU though.

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 Post subject: Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Post #22 Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:52 am 
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Garf wrote:
Code:
Leela-0.11.0-8t1g   3464   198   2017-10-24 21:49:09
Zen-15.3-1c0g   3457   4263   2017-10-25 07:32:31
Zen-15.4-1c0g   3449   922   2017-10-25 07:32:31

I know "1c0g" means 1 CPU and 0 GPU, but what does "8t" mean? Surely it's not Google's TPU?

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 Post subject: Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Post #23 Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:02 am 
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luigi wrote:
Garf wrote:
Code:
Leela-0.11.0-8t1g   3464   198   2017-10-24 21:49:09
Zen-15.3-1c0g   3457   4263   2017-10-25 07:32:31
Zen-15.4-1c0g   3449   922   2017-10-25 07:32:31

I know "1c0g" means 1 CPU and 0 GPU, but what does "8t" mean? Surely it's not Google's TPU?

Probably means "Thread".


This post by Isla was liked by: luigi
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 Post subject: Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Post #24 Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:47 pm 
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Zenith Go 7 is on sale now.
Japanese version: https://book.mynavi.jp/ec/products/detail/id=77803
English version: https://book.mynavi.jp/ec/products/detail/id=79528


This post by Isla was liked by 3 people: Gomoto, kris, Waylon
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 Post subject: Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Post #25 Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:53 am 
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Thanks for the heads-up! Bought and installed :study:

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 Post subject: Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Post #26 Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:42 am 
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Gomoto wrote:
Thanks for the heads-up! Bought and installed :study:


Can you show me how to purchase and install it?

One question. It said the strength is depended on the hardware.
has anyone try this on the Ryzen 7 1700X and see how it performs?

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 Post subject: Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Post #27 Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:48 pm 
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kdbaby1412 wrote:
Gomoto wrote:
Thanks for the heads-up! Bought and installed :study:


Can you show me how to purchase and install it?

One question. It said the strength is depended on the hardware.
has anyone try this on the Ryzen 7 1700X and see how it performs?


You have to register and give your first, last name and email. After the purchase download zip from "my page". And that's it. Zen is using CPU only and it had beaten RoyalLeela on 1min time setting.


Attachments:
Zen7 vs RoyalLeela.sgf [1.17 KiB]
Downloaded 598 times
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 Post subject: Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Post #28 Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:35 pm 
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johnsmith wrote:
kdbaby1412 wrote:
Gomoto wrote:
Thanks for the heads-up! Bought and installed :study:


Can you show me how to purchase and install it?

One question. It said the strength is depended on the hardware.
has anyone try this on the Ryzen 7 1700X and see how it performs?


You have to register and give your first, last name and email. After the purchase download zip from "my page". And that's it. Zen is using CPU only and it had beaten RoyalLeela on 1min time setting.


Can I know what hardware you test Zen 7 on?

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 Post subject: Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Post #29 Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:01 pm 
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Mid class intel i5

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 Post subject: Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Post #30 Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:13 pm 
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Reminder that the developer recommend running each program on independent hardware for benchmark otherwise it's not equal CPU distribution

https://twitter.com/gghideki_katoh/stat ... 0984525824

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 Post subject: Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Post #31 Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:47 pm 
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I'm pretty sure this Zen 7 can't beat my Leela 11 because if it's only using a CPU... I'm using a Quadro P 6000. But if someone want to test the strenght just send me a pm to fix the date and place to play.

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 Post subject: Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Post #32 Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:51 pm 
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Marcel Grünauer wrote:
I assume that RoyalLeela is on OGS, so Zen 7 had the whole CPU to itself.

But why is Zen 7 so strong on a mid-level CPU when it doesn't even use the GPU, which, from what I've heard, is a crucial factor for strength in other programs?


My assumption is that Deep Zen we see on Tygem is around 3750 Elo (it uses high-end GPU), while Zen with 30-60sec CPU is around 3460, which is much weaker that its full strength. So you are basically correct about GPU as a crucial factor. My another guess is that RoyalLeela (on OGS) is around 3350 Elo.

Attached is yet another game between Zen and Leela, where Zen was confident from the beginning.


Attachments:
Zen7 vs RoyalLeela.sgf [1.31 KiB]
Downloaded 524 times
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 Post subject: Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Post #33 Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:57 pm 
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It's true that GPU is the crucial point, but that's the comparison within the same software. For different software it can't be help if Zen without GPU can beat Leela with good GPU. It just shows that Zen's neural network is much better cause it was trained in a much faster hardware for a much longer time. But we need solid evidence that Zen 7 can really beat Leela first, besides CGOS result that no other programs can beat Zen-15.3-10c yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Post #34 Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:54 pm 
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Anyone ever met with a problem when purchasing the product?
I tried to purchase Zenith Go 7 English version half a day ago and I received payment record of my card, that means the charge have been deducted from it. But I couldn't find the purchase record in the web page and I didn't receive any e-mails about this purchase either.
I can hardly find contact information of customer service or similar things in the web page.
How can I confirm whether I have successfully purchased it? :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Post #35 Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:00 pm 
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Can someone test it against Crazy Stone DL , it should be a good test, because CSDL doesn't depend on hardware (I think)
How many stones can Zen7 give to CSDL 5 Dan ?

On my computer ( Win10 i7-6700K 32GB GTX1080) the strongest is AQ which won against CSDL(5D) 2-0 at H5 and lost 0-2 at H6 with 20" per move and 5 threads (5 is what AQ's author recommended for my computer).

I'd be very intersted in such a test. If Zen7 is stronger, I'll certainly buy it !

Interesting times :tmbup:

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 Post subject: Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Post #36 Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:09 am 
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Zenith Go 6 : Zenith Go 7

0 : 1

Intel I5 2500k @ 4,2 Ghz
20 seconds per move


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 Post subject: Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Post #37 Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:10 am 
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I'll purchase this on Monday and see how it works on my Ryzen 7 1700X. Then I'll test with someone Leela to confirm.

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 Post subject: Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Post #38 Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:58 pm 
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Leela 11 vs. Zen 7

1 : 0

Intel I5 2500k @ 4.2 Ghz, Nvidia 1080 Ti, Zen 20 sec. p. move, Leela 20 min p. game

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 Post subject: Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Post #39 Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:58 pm 
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Leela 0.11.0 GPU (no ponder, 8 threads, book enabled) – Zenith Go 7
0 : 1
Intel i7-7700K@4.2GHz
NVIDIA GTX 1080

Both engines had 30s per move. Zen used 17s on average (Zenith Go 6 uses only half of its time too).

At some point both engines thought black is better, but than things become bad for black. Leela had problems to evaluate the status of a group correctly.


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 Post subject: Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Post #40 Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:24 am 
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You used no ponder dude lol.

Seriously, Leela 11 running on Quadro P6000 can give Zen 6 3 stones of handicaps and still be winning. I have also won against KGS 7 dan with 3 stones, and KGS 8 d (1p from Europe) at 2 stones of handicaps and still won largely. Just search on KGS archives "Carnage" and you'll see I have won against Cheater who used to be a regular 8d (pro 1p) and Pestilence (strong 7d in the past but now 6d cause of all bot users).

Leela 11 > Zen 7, sorry for those who paid for this last.


Last edited by tartaric on Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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