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LZ's progression
http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=15718		 Page 10 of 21
Author:  Tryss [ Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LZ's progression
It's not suprising it is stronger : it's faster.

Look at the difference in playouts you got in your matchs
Author:  nbc44 [ Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LZ's progression
Vargo wrote:
Edit : another 40 game match 0.15.9999 v 0.15 (#184, same conditions as before)
LZ 0.15.9999 wins 22-18
So, after 60 games : LZ 0.15.9999 wins 36-24
Not bad ;-)
If someone wants the games...

"visit" parity test 0.15.9999 vs 0.15: 193 wins, 191 losses
Code:
C:\APPS\l0gpu15.9999\leelaz.exe -g -v 800 --gpu 1 --gpu 0 --noponder -t 12 -q -d --timemanage off -w C:\APPS\net\2da87ea8.gz
vs
C:\APPS\l0gpu\leelaz.exe -g -v 800 --gpu 0 --gpu 1 --noponder -t 12 -q -d --timemanage off -w C:\APPS\net\2da87ea8.gz

Nothing interesting ... :scratch:
P.S. If someone wants the games...
Author:  Vargo [ Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LZ's progression
The official V0.16 just came out !
Tryss wrote:
Nothing interesting ... :scratch:
V0.15.9999 or V.0.16 is faster than V0.15, so, it's stronger than V0.15 at TIME PARITY, not at visits parity (your test is at visits parity...)

If you run a match at TIME PARITY, I bet you'll see a big difference !
Author:  Uberdude [ Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LZ's progression
How much faster is the question. I just did a little test on my GTX 1060 and LZ #157 in 10 seconds went from 4k playouts to 5.4k. So that's about 35% speed increase, nice!
Author:  Vargo [ Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LZ's progression
Someone posted this at github about the improvement LZ 0.15 --> LZ 0.15.999

Attachment:
ar.jpg
ar.jpg [ 21.33 KiB | Viewed 9933 times ]


So, it seems you're about right ! :)
Author:  Mike Novack [ Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LZ's progression
Vargo wrote:
If you run a match at TIME PARITY, I bet you'll see a big difference !


And time parity is the correct way to measure.

However ENOUGH time (realistic time) can be critical also. A program that might be better than another at unrealistic short amounts of time but dos not improve as much when given a more realistic amount of time as the second program is not necessarily the stronger at REALISTIC time.

We really should be making some decisions about this. What would be realistic for human blitz games? What would be realistic for fast (but not blitz) human games? What would be realistic for normal speed human games?
Author:  Vargo [ Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LZ's progression
New network (185)
20 game match between #157 (best 192x15) and #185 (best 256x40)

LZ 0.16, 5 min per side and game, GPU 1x1080, twogtp 1.4.10

#185 wins 12-8 (6 wins as B, 6 wins as W)

Average length 227 moves , almost exactly 2 sec/move for both sides.

I'll upload the games if someone wants them.
Author:  nbc44 [ Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LZ's progression
Vargo wrote:
If you run a match at TIME PARITY, I bet you'll see a big difference !

"True" time parity test - v16 vs v15 (3s per move, 2x1080ti, #184):
Code:
gogui-twogtp -black "C:\APPS\l0gpu16\leelaz.exe --gtp --weights=C:\APPS\net\2da87ea8.gz -t 12 --gpu 0 --gpu 1 --noponder --precision half" -white "C:\APPS\l0gpu\leelaz.exe --gtp --weights=C:\APPS\net\2da87ea8.gz -t 12 --gpu 0 --gpu 1 --noponder" -games 50 -sgffile v16-v15 -auto -time 1s+4s/1 -komi 7.5 -verbose
gogui-twogtp -white "C:\APPS\l0gpu16\leelaz.exe --gtp --weights=C:\APPS\net\2da87ea8.gz -t 12 --gpu 0 --gpu 1 --noponder --precision half" -black "C:\APPS\l0gpu\leelaz.exe --gtp --weights=C:\APPS\net\2da87ea8.gz -t 12 --gpu 0 --gpu 1 --noponder" -games 50 -sgffile v15-v16 -auto -time 1s+4s/1 -komi 7.5 -verbose

71 : 29

:clap:

Attachments:
v15-v16.zip [92.24 KiB]
Downloaded 398 times
Author:  luigi [ Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LZ's progression
I'm following Leela's progression with delight. Does anyone know what its current rating against human pros on "normal" hardware (let's say one GTX 1080) would be? Is it better than the #1 human on those conditions? If so, by how much?
Author:  Mike Novack [ Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LZ's progression
AND normal time. A human player could do little to no reading at 2 seconds/move.
Author:  Yakago [ Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LZ's progression
luigi wrote:
I'm following Leela's progression with delight. Does anyone know what its current rating against human pros on "normal" hardware (let's say one GTX 1080) would be? Is it better than the #1 human on those conditions? If so, by how much?


Considering that even a few months ago, LeelaZero was beating human professionals with 2-3 handicap stones, which it was not even built for, on consumer hardware. (Since then, there has been various improvements to handicap play)

I would think that LeelaZero is well above any human on a GTX 1080. It is possible that you can find a blind spot with a ladder or similar though, depending on the time settings.
Author:  splee99 [ Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LZ's progression
I run two games with equal thinking time (20 seconds per move) between Phoenixgo(W) and Leela zero(B) with weight 186. LZ lost both games.
Author:  splee99 [ Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LZ's progression
LZ weight 185 is better against Phoenixgo.


Attachments:
phoenix-185.sgf [1.95 KiB]
Downloaded 857 times
Author:  nbc44 [ Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LZ's progression
"True" time parity test - #186(black) vs #157a (3s per move, 2x1080ti).

Empire strikes back, part1:
Code:
gogui-twogtp -black "C:\APPS\l0gpu16\leelaz.exe --gtp --weights=C:\APPS\net\f50dc27c.gz -t 12 --gpu 0 --gpu 1 --noponder --precision half" -white "C:\APPS\l0gpu16\leelaz.exe --gtp --weights=C:\APPS\net\fc5e0a50.gz -t 12 --gpu 0 --gpu 1 --noponder --precision half" -games 50 -sgffile 186-157a -auto -time 1s+4s/1 -komi 7.5 -verbose

19:31 :bow:

P.S. Games #22 & #34 are the top of artificial intelligence :lol:.
What/where are we doing/going?

to be continued...

Attachments:
186-157a-34.sgf [1.09 KiB]
Downloaded 442 times
186-157a-22.sgf [1.08 KiB]
Downloaded 454 times
Author:  Vargo [ Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LZ's progression
splee99 wrote:
I run two games with equal thinking time (20 seconds per move) between Phoenixgo(W) and Leela zero(B) with weight 186..
What is your GPU ?
Author:  splee99 [ Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LZ's progression
GTX1050 with 2G memory. In the middle game, 20 s means about 1500 playouts for LZ and more playouts in the end game.
Author:  nbc44 [ Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LZ's progression
"True" time parity test - #186 (white) vs #157a (3s per move, 2x1080ti).

New hope, part2:
Code:
gogui-twogtp -white "C:\APPS\l0gpu16\leelaz.exe --gtp --weights=C:\APPS\net\f50dc27c.gz -t 12 --gpu 0 --gpu 1 --noponder --precision half" -black "C:\APPS\l0gpu16\leelaz.exe --gtp --weights=C:\APPS\net\fc5e0a50.gz -t 12 --gpu 0 --gpu 1 --noponder --precision half" -games 50 -sgffile 157a-186 -auto -time 1s+4s/1 -komi 7.5 -verbose

29:21 :scratch:

Finally: #186 vs #157a : +48-52=0

P.S. I can not explain the results of my test. What is wrong with black colour? V16, "--precision half" option, too little games...?

Attachments:
File comment: Part1 & Part2
186-157a.zip [97.33 KiB]
Downloaded 453 times
Author:  splee99 [ Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LZ's progression
There is a well-known saying among professional go players. When you have to kill a huge dragon to win, you are already far behind. It may still take more time for LZ to understand this. When LZ186 plays black, it almost always tries to kill a huge dragon. LZ185 is more modest and plays more defensive moves.
Author:  nbc44 [ Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LZ's progression
splee99 wrote:
... When LZ186 plays black, it almost always tries to kill a huge dragon. LZ185 is more modest and plays more defensive moves.

And what about #157a? It have the same results, so i'm desagree with you.
Author:  splee99 [ Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LZ's progression
LZ157 is using 15 blocks, so it is unable to generate any huge dragon (at least as large as the one generated by the 40 block). So there is less unexpected outcome regarding life and death of a large dragon.
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