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"A Master of Go", iOS/iPadOS Go AI app
http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=16216		 Page 9 of 12
Author:  Limeztone [ Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Go AI app for iOS with that strong neural network
y_ich san,

I have two bugs to report, maybe they are related.

When your app is set to use KataGo and I open a game stored in sgf, the Win Rate totally off. It seams that it somehow is affected by the end position of that game. And it keeps being wrong if you step through the game (I am surprised that no one else has stumbled on this bug). The bug is not in just this version. It was in the previous versions as well.

The second bug is not from usual usage. As I was wondering what KataGo would think of reversed komi, I created a sgf where black passes his first move (with komi) and then expected the Win Rate to go high for white. But when I open the sgf (where black passes) in study mode and step one move forward the Win Rate is still close to 50-50. After white makes his move the Win Rate goes up for white to the expected level. I have noticed strange behaviour regarding pass in other situations as well. They are hard to find as there is no option to pass in study mode.


I still wish for a confirmation popup for pass when playing :-)

And I think it would be nice with a possibility to pass in study mode.
(now one have to save the game and add a pass in the sgf file an reload)
Author:  y_ich [ Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Go AI app for iOS with that strong neural network
Limeztone san,

Thank you for reporting bugs!

1. I could not reproduce the first issue. Could you send the SGF to new.three.rs@gmail.com?

2. This is currently the app's specification. The app removes the last passes as ending procedure. If you want to try the same thing, please play white's first move or make an SGF with KM property as minus value.

Would you send bug reports and feature request by e-mail?
Or if you have a github account, creating issues in https://github.com/new3Rs/a_master_of_go is welocome, too.

I hope that this thread will be a place at which users help each other for usage of the app.

Thank you!
Author:  Dfeldmann [ Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Go AI app for iOS with that strong neural network
y_ich san,
Thanks again for all your work

In fact, my main (slight) complaint at the moment is that there is no easy way to switch from study mode to game mode, i.e. I would like to be able to set any position on the board (for instance by letting the computer play again itself) and enter game mode, or play in game mode with black and when the position feels hopeless, switch colors, etc. My incompetent feeling is that should not be very hard to program, but what do I know ?
Author:  y_ich [ Sat Mar 07, 2020 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Go AI app for iOS with that strong neural network
Dfeldmann san,

Thank you for your feature request!
I will consider about it.

(Since putting the "bug report/feature request" button in version 5.0.6, I am constantly getting feature requests. So what I can say quickly is just "I will consider about it"^^;)
Author:  Limeztone [ Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Go AI app for iOS with that strong neural network
y_ich wrote:
Limeztone san,

Thank you for reporting bugs!

1. I could not reproduce the first issue. Could you send the SGF to new.three.rs@gmail.com?

2. This is currently the app's specification. The app removes the last passes as ending procedure. If you want to try the same thing, please play white's first move or make an SGF with KM property as minus value.

Would you send bug reports and feature request by e-mail?
Or if you have a github account, creating issues in https://github.com/new3Rs/a_master_of_go is welocome, too.

I hope that this thread will be a place at which users help each other for usage of the app.

Thank you!


I'm a bit surprised that you can't reproduce it.
For me it happens with any sgf I try...

But you can try this one:

Attachments:
Sample.sgf [1.41 KiB]
Downloaded 529 times
Author:  Limeztone [ Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Go AI app for iOS with that strong neural network
Limeztone wrote:
your app is set to use KataGo and I open a game stored in sgf, the Win Rate totally off. It seams that it somehow is affected by the end position of that game. And it keeps being wrong if you step through the game (I am surprised that no one else has stumbled on this bug). The bug is not in just this version. It was in the previous versions as well.


Is it really only for me that this happens?
If someone care to verify you can use the Sample.sgf that I included in my previous post.

y_ich san, nice redesign of undo! And thanks for confirmation of pass!
Author:  Limeztone [ Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Go AI app for iOS with that strong neural network
Limeztone wrote:
Limeztone wrote:
your app is set to use KataGo and I open a game stored in sgf, the Win Rate totally off. It seams that it somehow is affected by the end position of that game. And it keeps being wrong if you step through the game (I am surprised that no one else has stumbled on this bug). The bug is not in just this version. It was in the previous versions as well.
Is it really only for me that this happens?
If someone care to verify you can use the Sample.sgf that I included in my previous post.

y_ich san, nice redesign of undo! And thanks for confirmation of pass!
This issue exist in the newer versions as well.
It's a bit sad not to be able to "review" sgf-games...
Author:  wineandgolover [ Fri May 29, 2020 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Go AI app for iOS with that strong neural network
Hi y_ich,

Still love your work, and hope you are doing ok in the virus crisis.

Any chance that you can update the app with the final katago models now that it’s completed it’s most recent run?

Thanks!
Author:  Limeztone [ Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Go AI app for iOS with that strong neural network
y_ish san,

please let us know if you still read this forum!

I have a tiny suggestion!
At least I think it would be very easy to implement.
It's quite normal to play with reversed komi.
And as I see there is today no way to set up you app with reverse komi (other than -0.5)
So we can't study with reversed komi, if we want.

Thanks in advance!
Author:  ez4u [ Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Go AI app for iOS with that strong neural network
Limeztone wrote:
y_ish san,

please let us know if you still read this forum!

...

You can always hit the "profile" button below any of his (or anyone else's) post and check when they were last on L19. As I write this y_ish was last here on Friday, May 29th (Japan Standard Time).
Author:  wineandgolover [ Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Go AI app for iOS with that strong neural network
For anyone who didn’t know, y_ich did update “A Master of Go” with the final katago models.

On my base iPad and iPhone 11Pro (both with neural engine) the 40 block engine gets around 20 playouts per second, and the 20 block gets 40 playouts per second. This is good enough that my phone can find some solutions that Leela Zero can’t find on my computer. Amazing.

Y_ich, thanks, and please come back.

wineandgolover wrote:
Hi y_ich,

Still love your work, and hope you are doing ok in the virus crisis.

Any chance that you can update the app with the final katago models now that it’s completed it’s most recent run?

Thanks!
Author:  wineandgolover [ Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Go AI app for iOS with that strong neural network
Just announced: OpenML speed increased 10x on new iPad Air.

If that transfers to A Master of Go as past gains have, katago's current 40b engine might get around 200 playouts per second.

:shock:
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Go AI app for iOS with that strong neural network
wineandgolover wrote:
Just announced: OpenML speed increased 10x on new iPad Air.

If that transfers to A Master of Go as past gains have, katago's current 40b engine might get around 200 playouts per second.


If I have understood goame correctly, 2x RTX 2080 TI do 1358 playouts per second at 2x 258W so 2.5 playouts/Ws. Apple A14 with 200 playouts per second and ca. 6.2W would do 32 playouts/Ws, i.e., ca. 13 times as power-efficient but 6.78 times slower.
Author:  y_ich [ Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Go AI app for iOS with that strong neural network
Hello, everyone.

Since my last post I haven't received any notification e-mails, I haven't checked this thread.
I will read all posts after that and I will check notification settings here.

I must let you know that KataGo engine on "A Master of Go" does not work on iOS 14/iPadOS 14.
Please stay in iOS 13/iPadOS 13 until I fix the issue.

Thank you for your interest on my app!
Author:  y_ich [ Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Go AI app for iOS with that strong neural network
Limeztone san,

I am sorry for my too late reply.
Still I could not reproduce your issue by Sample.sgf.
Sample.sgf sets komi to -5.5 and KataGo suggests 11 points lead for black.
Could you tell me the meaning of "the Win Rate totally off"?

Thank you for your cooperations!
Author:  y_ich [ Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Go AI app for iOS with that strong neural network
wineandgolover san, RobertJasiek san,

"10x speed up" means that A14 has an AMX unit, which already introduced on A13.
This unit seems not effective for inference. It is for learning.

A14 has Neural Engine which runs twice faster than A13.
I expect that A14's eps(evaluation per second) will be nearly double of A13 for Leela Zero-type weights.
But I don't expect such a boost for KataGo weight by A14 since its bottleneck is not convolutions, is global pooling layers.


Please take care of yourselves in COVID-19 era.
Author:  wineandgolover [ Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Go AI app for iOS with that strong neural network
y_ich wrote:
Hello, everyone.

Since my last post I haven't received any notification e-mails, I haven't checked this thread.
I will read all posts after that and I will check notification settings here.

I must let you know that KataGo engine on "A Master of Go" does not work on iOS 14/iPadOS 14.
Please stay in iOS 13/iPadOS 13 until I fix the issue.

Thank you for your interest on my app!


Damn, I just came here to say this. Guess I'll wait for the fix. Good luck, and thanks y_ich!
Author:  y_ich [ Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Go AI app for iOS with that strong neural network
wineandgolover san,

I am sorry that you have already updated iPadOS.

In my investigation the cause is inside CoreML(part of OS).
I reported it to Apple.
I also asked any workarounds but don't expect it so much.
I hope that Apple will update OS with fixing soon.
Author:  y_ich [ Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Go AI app for iOS with that strong neural network
Grünauer san,

Thank you for your report!

Could you send it via "Bug report/Feature request" link in the main menu?
It adds related information to help me know issues in detail.
This is the official, highly recommended way.

I could not reproduce your issue in version 5.6.0, which was released on 17:00 Sep. 20th UTC.

Thank you for your cooperations.
Author:  y_ich [ Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Go AI app for iOS with that strong neural network
Dear everyone,

As Grünauer san kindly reported it, fixing the issue of KataGo on iOS 14/iPadOS 14 by the version 5.6.0 was not complete.
If your device does not have Neural Engine, please stay in iOS 13/iPadOS 13.
If your device has Neural Engine, I think that it works hopefully.

Thank you for your patience.
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