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 Post subject: What about the komi discussion, now that KataGo is coming
Post #1 Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:04 pm 
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I managed to make KataGo analysis work on my pc, by gathering a few bits from the github pages of katago and lizzie

Now KataGo has a 'score estimation' network, and who would have thought - the evaluation of an empty board with chinese rules and 7.5 komi is a 1.2 points advantage for white.

Someone might correct me, but from my understanding, Chinese rules with 7.5 komi is equivalent to Japanese/Korean with either 6.5 or 7.5 komi depending on who gets the last dame.

If KataGo is 'correct', does this mean that 6.5 komi chinese rules is actually more appropriate than 7.5?

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Post #2 Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:09 pm 
Honinbo
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6.5 komi chinese rules is actually more appropriate than 7.5?
The odd number (5,7,etc.) is related to the odd-numbered 361 board.

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 Post subject: Re: What about the komi discussion, now that KataGo is comin
Post #3 Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:21 pm 
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There is little difference between 5.5 and 6.5 for Chinese. I'm not sure why they switched from 5.5 to 7.5 but I guess there were some statistical reasons.

Otherwise common sense would predict 7.5 is worse: correct komi is 7 and it is better to let B win ties than W, since practical players are not close to correct/perfect play thus need slightly less komi.

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 Post subject: Re: What about the komi discussion, now that KataGo is comin
Post #4 Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:53 pm 
Lives with ko

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Yakago wrote:
Now KataGo has a 'score estimation' network, and who would have thought - the evaluation of an empty board with chinese rules and 7.5 komi is a 1.2 points advantage for white.

However - if you repeat the experiment with zero komi, it thinks Black has a 9.1 point advantage on the empty board.

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 Post subject: Re: What about the komi discussion, now that KataGo is comin
Post #5 Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:52 pm 
Dies with sente

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bernds wrote:
Yakago wrote:
Now KataGo has a 'score estimation' network, and who would have thought - the evaluation of an empty board with chinese rules and 7.5 komi is a 1.2 points advantage for white.

However - if you repeat the experiment with zero komi, it thinks Black has a 9.1 point advantage on the empty board.


But if white tries to win with zero komi, he has to try risky things, which leads to greater disadvantage if black counters well. If instead of trying to win, white tries to minimize the score difference, you may get different results. I think the average score difference would be smaller.

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 Post subject: Re: What about the komi discussion, now that KataGo is comin
Post #6 Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:10 am 
Tengen

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Yakago wrote:
Chinese rules with 7.5 komi is equivalent to Japanese/Korean with either 6.5 or 7.5 komi


You are wrong, see https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?p=246387#p246387

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