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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #141 Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 2:34 pm 
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Game 96 (7 komi, NZ rules) sees a black and white dragon running through the center, both of them surviving happily. The game ends in a draw. https://online-go.com/review/957737

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc The opening.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
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$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . W . . . . . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_96.sgf [2.46 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games + video reviews
Post #142 Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 2:40 pm 
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xela wrote:
Hi, sorry I haven't been online much this year. I'm pleased to see this series is still going! Are you planning anything special for the 100th game? :-)


I just saw this post! <3 I've already played 106 games, I'm just way behind on posting them here. I didn't do anything special for game 100, but once I post it here, I'll post the updated win statistics and fuseki index. :)

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games + video reviews
Post #143 Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 3:52 pm 
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I watch some of the video reviews from time to time when they come out, thanks for making these.

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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #144 Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 4:01 pm 
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You're very welcome, that makes me happy to know! :)

Just as with game 89, moves 9 - 16 of game 97 (NZ rules, 7 komi) were also identical with game 49. In fact, despite starting from scratch again, all of moves 1 - 22 of game 97 were identical with game 89. It seems like the 60b neural network currently employed at ZBaduk is much more confident in its opening moves than the previous 40b nets. By move 200, white has sacrificed a seven-stone group that started out as a 3-3 invasion (of which there were four again) in exchange for living small with all of her bottom side stones. It's another draw. https://online-go.com/review/962053

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Game 89 continued at a instead of C15.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
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$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_97.sgf [2.19 KiB]
Downloaded 1605 times
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #145 Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 4:34 pm 
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Game 98 (7 komi, NZ rules) is a low territory count game that ends with nine living groups on the board. Of course it's a draw. https://online-go.com/review/971560

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Game 88 and at least four other games continue at a instead of C3.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
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$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_98.sgf [2.52 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #146 Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2023 11:39 am 
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In game 99 (7 komi, NZ rules), black's double approach stones to white's 4-4 corner link up to surround it completely and make 38 points in the process, while white's group lives with 4 points. It's a draw. https://online-go.com/review/975586

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Game 88 continued at a instead of R9.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_99.sgf [2.35 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #147 Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 12:29 am 
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Here's my 10-kyu rundown of game 100 (7 komi, NZ rules):
Moves 1 — 4: Black takes the upper 4-4 points, white the lower 4-4 points.
5: Black approaches the lower right.
6 — 10: 3-3 joseki in the upper left.
11 — 27: Double-approach joseki in the lower right.
28 — 62: White makes sabaki in black's left side influence.
63 — 66: Black finishes a moyo in the upper right, white lives with the left side group.
67 — 97: Lower side fight that spills into the center.
98 — 107: White makes sabaki in black's upper right moyo, splitting black into a solid 11-point corner and a living group on the side.
108 — 117: The lower side fight resolves. Black makes 31 points there.
118 — 122: Black and white solidify their right side groups.
123 — 140: The center fight continues. White finishes a 20-point upper side territory.
141 — 187: The center fight resolves. Black finishes a 4-point territory in the center, white a 10-point territory on the left.
188 — 209: Black and white reduce each other on the right side. Black ends up with 2 points of territory there, white with 3 points.
210 — 218: White finishes a 4-point territory in the center and a 4-point territory in the bottom right.
219 — 306: Yose. The game ends as a draw.
https://online-go.com/review/979399

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Game 99 continued at a instead of L4.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . . W . X O . O O . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_100.sgf [2.31 KiB]
Downloaded 1593 times
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #148 Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 1:44 pm 
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In game 101 (7 komi, NZ rules), at move 14, white invades black's lower side moyo. At move 33, black invades white's left side moyo. At move 55, black invades white's upper side moyo. At move 80, white invades black's right side moyo. White wins by 2 points. https://online-go.com/review/982122

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Game 105 will continue at a instead of D7.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_101.sgf [2.2 KiB]
Downloaded 1548 times


Last edited by Maharani on Fri Jan 19, 2024 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #149 Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:23 am 
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Moves 8 to 17 of game 102 (7 komi, NZ rules) see white pursuing some very strange aji in black's upper right corner. After move 196, Kata suddenly realizes that black is ahead by 14 points rather than just 2. White loses her will to live and ends up losing by at least 30 points. https://online-go.com/review/984818

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Games 102 and 104 continue at O18. Game 116 will continue at a instead.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . a X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_102.sgf [1.78 KiB]
Downloaded 1537 times


Last edited by Maharani on Fri Jan 19, 2024 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games + video reviews
Post #150 Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:56 am 
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OGS: Maharani
Game 102 was our hundredth “ranked” game. (In games 42 and 43, white played a slightly suboptimal move 2 in order to achieve a 50 % winrate.)

Our current tally is 24 black wins, 37 draws and 39 white wins, or an effective winrate of 57.5 % for white.

A full 23 % of games continued from these two positions:


Attachments:
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image.jpg [ 67.38 KiB | Viewed 17288 times ]
image (1).jpg
image (1).jpg [ 68.42 KiB | Viewed 17288 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #151 Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:17 pm 
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Location: Pasadena, USA
Liked others: 80
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Rank: OGS 9 kyu
OGS: Maharani
Here's my 10-kyu rundown of game 103 (7 komi, NZ rules):
Moves 1 — 28: White builds a left-side moyo between two small black corners. Black builds a large upper right moyo.
29 — 39: Black invades white's moyo and enlarges his own.
40 — 58: White invades and lives in black's upper right corner in sente, then grabs a lower right corner enclosure.
59 — 65: Black begins to connect his left side group to his upper side territory.
66 — 105: White invades and reduces black's right side moyo but makes no points. Black makes territory on the bottom in the process.
106 — 115: White forces black into connecting out his left side dragon while white profits in the center.
116 — 311: Basically two hundred moves of end game. :) It's a draw.
https://online-go.com/review/986389

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black's turn. Black will make twenty points on the upper side and connect out his C10 stones. Which colour do you prefer?
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . W . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
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$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_103.sgf [2.33 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #152 Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 9:00 pm 
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Posts: 247
Location: Pasadena, USA
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OGS: Maharani
Game 104 (7 komi, NZ rules) was a mindboggling game that featured eight kos and seven freestanding empty triangles. It ended as a draw with only two living groups per player. https://online-go.com/review/990085

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Game 102 continued at a instead of C5.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
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$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O W O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_104.sgf [7.2 KiB]
Downloaded 1129 times


Last edited by Maharani on Fri Jan 19, 2024 12:25 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #153 Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:02 pm 
Lives with ko

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Location: Pasadena, USA
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Rank: OGS 9 kyu
OGS: Maharani
The first 28 moves of game 105 (7 komi, NZ rules) look like two DDK players each building a ridiculous moyo... then the fun starts, including lots of crazy sacrifices. At move 213, KataGo still thinks the game is even, but white ends up winning by 24 points by means of a ginormous seki. https://online-go.com/review/992450

Clossius, AGA 3d did a 25-minute video review of this game! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BYb1Hj8H8Y

I’ve included all of his (commented) variations, plus more KataGo variations, in the OGS review as well.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_105.sgf [15.81 KiB]
Downloaded 1192 times


Last edited by Maharani on Fri Jan 19, 2024 12:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #154 Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:58 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 247
Location: Pasadena, USA
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OGS: Maharani
Unlike the previous two games with only two living groups per player, game 106 (7 komi, NZ rules) ends up with four living groups per player, including three groups that live with 4 or fewer points. White wins the game by 2 points. https://online-go.com/review/998979

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Games 88, 99 and 100 continued at a instead of S4.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . O a W . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_106.sgf [2.16 KiB]
Downloaded 1188 times
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #155 Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 11:40 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 247
Location: Pasadena, USA
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OGS: Maharani
In game 107 (7 komi, NZ rules), a large ko is set up at move 142 that takes another 128 moves to resolve. White wins the ko, and the game by 6 points. https://online-go.com/review/1001229

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Game 122 will continue at a instead of O6.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . X O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_107.sgf [2.12 KiB]
Downloaded 1180 times
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #156 Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2024 8:05 am 
Lives with ko

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Game 108 (7 komi, NZ rules) saw a very complicated fight on the right side spiral into the center. At the last minute, a ko results in the surprising trade of eight black stones on the right side for nine white stones in the upper left corner. The game ends as a draw. https://online-go.com/review/1003989

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Game 113 will continue at a instead of P7.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O W . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X a O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . X O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_108.sgf [2.35 KiB]
Downloaded 1156 times
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #157 Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2024 9:08 pm 
Lives with ko

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In game 109 (7 komi, NZ rules), after move 86, it looks like black could make a solid 30-point territory on the right side if he defends. But black doesn't defend, and by the end of the game is reduced to only 5 points there, while white has made 18 points in the area herself. A fun ko starts at move 207 and is fought for almost 80 moves. White wins the game by 2 points. https://online-go.com/review/1007055

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Games 106, 107 and 108 continued at a, b and c instead of C12.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . b . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . X O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_109.sgf [2.61 KiB]
Downloaded 1172 times
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #158 Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2024 12:18 am 
Lives with ko

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The first 16 moves of game 110 (7 komi, NZ rules) look remarkably human to me. Move 69 is a tesuji and a half. By move 129, black has three corners and a large center moyo, but white makes sabaki in there and reduces it to nothing. Move 142 results in beautiful local symmetry. The endgame sees both players happily wasting ko threats, signifying a draw. https://online-go.com/review/1009972

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Games 44, 51, 52, 55, 62, 77 and 78 continued at a instead of Q3.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_110.sgf [2.25 KiB]
Downloaded 1174 times
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Post #159 Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2024 2:24 am 
Lives in gote

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Maharani wrote:
Game 104 (7 komi, NZ rules) was a mindboggling game that featured eight kos and seven freestanding empty triangles. It ended as a draw with only two living groups per player.


Sorry I'm not able to keep up with the pace and review every game here. This one was very exciting! And right after the other festival of kos too!

A few moments that caught my attention:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W After move 37: white to respond to the marked stone
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


This is a type of move I find difficult to play! I feel as though I want to move out into the centre and develop on a large scale. But here, KataGo comes up with a honte play.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Just be patient
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

My local installation of KataGo (using a lot less playouts than Maharani) says a is about as good as :w1:.


Move 48: I'm surprised white can get away with tenuki here! (Actually, KataGo flags the game move as one of several equally good options.) Don't you need to defend those white stones at the bottom? See what happens to them later in the game ... and how much difference it makes to the final result. Likewise the tenuki at move 72 surprised me.

Move 73: I know you're supposed to attack from a distance, not too close, but this is really something!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black wants to attack the marked stone
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . O . . . . . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X O . O X . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . X O X X O O . . O X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X O . . . O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Attack from a distance! How much distance?
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . O . . . . . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X O . O X . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . X O X X O O . . O X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X O . . . O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Move 87: They say don't peep where you can cut. How about peeping where you can't even peep?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to "attack" the marked stones
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . O . . O . . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . O X . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . W . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . W . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . W X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X O . O X . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . X O X X O O . . O X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X O . . . O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . O . . O . . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . O X . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . 2 . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . 1 a . X . X . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X O . O X . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . X O X X O O . . O X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X O . . . O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

The move at :b1: doesn't actually threaten to cut anything at all! Which is why doesn't need to reply at a. But :b1: is still a key shape point, and still a good move.

(Edit: OK, black can cut off something. See Knotwilg's post below.)


Move 99: you might expect black to chase the weak white stones, or perhaps try a leaning attack here.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to move: a, b, or c?
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . O . . O . . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . O X . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . X . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O a b c . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X O . O X . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . X O X X O O . . O X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X O . X O O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X O . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Surprise!
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . O . . O . . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . O X . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . X . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 1 . . . . . . . . O X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X O . O X . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . X O X X O O . . O X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X O . X O O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X O . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

This causes all sorts of trouble later on...


Move 102: Another surprise tenuki.

Move 113: To me this looks like a loss-making ko threat. How about a monkey jump instead? But actually this move causes a lot of trouble for white later in the game.

The position after white 126:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to move. Who is winning?
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . . . X O O O . . . |
$$ | X O O X O . O . . O . O X X O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . O X . O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . . . . . X . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . X . X . . O X . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . O . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X O . O X . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . X O X X O O . . O X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X O . X O O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X O . O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Here it looks to me like the white stones at the bottom are totally dead, and black is just way ahead. Seeing how the endgame evolves is a great lesson in exploiting black's thinness and the aji of white's captured stones. The sequence of moves starting from 134 is just beautiful, and there's plenty more to come.

White 154: Looks like an ambitious way to defend the top. Wouldn't you fall back a space to be safe? No, the game is too close for any slack moves.

White 164 just made no sense to me at first glance. After going through a lot of variations with KataGo saying "no, that one doesn't work", I figured out that this innocent looking move actually affects the life and death status of black's top left stones.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Not such an innocent move
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . O X X O O O X O . |
$$ | X O O X O . O . . O . O X X O X O O . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . O X . O O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | c . X O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O O . X O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X d d X . O O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O X . . . X X O . X . X . . |
$$ | . O a O O . . X O . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O b X . X O . O X . . O X . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . X O O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . X O O X . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O O . X X X . X . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X O . O X . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . X O X X O O X . O X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X O . X O O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X O . O X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

If white does nothing, then black has a in reserve, threatening to cut something off. After white plays b, black has to be much more careful about eye space around c or the connection at d.


Move 168: A nice subtle ko threat! At first glance I thought it threatened to start another ko for connection to the centre bottom group. Actually there's a squeeze in there, no ko.

Move 171 was a nice tesuji, jumping in a line deeper than you might expect, and move 176 a nice indirect way to defend against a cut.

Move 191: here's where the New Zealand rules count! Under Chinese rules, the game could possibly end here with a triple ko.

Move 246: Looks like terrible shape! Actually it's a point better than the usual diagonal move, because it sets up a trap:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +--------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | X O O X O . . . . .
$$ | X O O X O . O . . O
$$ | . X X O . . . . . O
$$ | . X O O . . . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . a X O . . O O . X
$$ | . . . X X X X X O O
$$ | X X X . . O X . . O
$$ | X O O O O O O X O O
$$ | O . O O X . X O . O[/go]


In the game, black defended at a. If black tenukis instead, what can white do?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +--------------------
$$ | . a . . . . . . . .
$$ | X W O X O . . . . .
$$ | X O O X O . O . . O
$$ | 1 X X O . . . . . O
$$ | 2 X O O . . . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . 3 X O . . O O . X
$$ | . . . X X X X X O O
$$ | X X X . . O X . . O
$$ | X O O O O O O X O O
$$ | O . O O X . X O . O[/go]

After :w1: - :b2: - :w3:, the black group is dead. So after :w1:, black has to play :b2: at :w3: instead, and white can capture two stones. If the marked white stone were at a instead, then :w1: wouldn't be an atari, so replying with :b2: at :w3: doesn't lose anything.


Thanks again for posting these fascinating games! Even I don't get time to post my comments every time, I'm enjoying the ones that I manage to look at. Please keep going with this :-)


Last edited by xela on Sun Jan 14, 2024 6:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

This post by xela was liked by: Maharani
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 Post subject: Re: KataGo self-play games + video reviews
Post #160 Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2024 4:14 am 
Oza
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . O . . O . . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . O X . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . b O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . O 3 5 . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . 1 a 4 X . X . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X O . O X . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . X O X X O O . . O X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X O . . . O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


This post by Knotwilg was liked by 2 people: Maharani, xela
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