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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #81 Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:06 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 162
Location: Pasadena, USA
Liked others: 67
Was liked: 10
Rank: OGS 11 kyu
OGS: Maharani
Game 45 (7 komi, NZ rules) is our first game with an early (move 3) 3-3 invasion, soon followed by a second one that develops similarly. A very complicated game - and another tie. Our current tally is 10 black wins, 15 ties and 20 white wins. https://online-go.com/review/625577

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc All previous games with these first 2 moves continued at a or b instead of C3.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_45.sgf [2.45 KiB]
Downloaded 543 times
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #82 Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:30 pm 
Lives with ko

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Location: Pasadena, USA
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Was liked: 10
Rank: OGS 11 kyu
OGS: Maharani
No interest in these games whatsoever... Not on the OGS forums, either, nor on Reddit. Do y'all think there's another place where people might be interested?

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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #83 Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:51 pm 
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I guess it's a lot to keep up with, particularly when the level of play is so high as to be beyond the casual viewer. :)

The occasional videos are still cool, particularly when there's human-digestible insights about specific moves and such.

If I had more time personally, I'd dive into a lot more of other fun stuff myself too:

* How has the frequency of different joseki preferences and opening raw policy changed across time over the course of a run?
* Pick a bunch of example positions in the middle of joseki or joseki-like sequences and a bunch of configurations for the surrounding corners. Are there positions where the choice depends greatly on the neighboring corners a lot, and are there human-understandable patterns to it?
* Are there easily-calculable metrics by which pure-AI-selfplay games are extremely strikingly different than human games?
* Between KataGo, LZ, ELF, MiniGo, etc, where are the largest differences between their preferences for various moves, that aren't simply revealable as a mistake?
* How often does KataGo's preference for a move clearly change as a function of the komi putting it ahead versus behind?
* If it's possible to obtain a large SGF joseki dictionary to just run analysis over - are there any josekis where a really surprising move is recommended that people haven't yet seen before?
etc.


This post by lightvector was liked by: Maharani
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #84 Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:41 am 
Lives with ko

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Rank: OGS 11 kyu
OGS: Maharani
In game 46 (7 komi, NZ rules), white builds a 40-point lower side territory while black gets three and a half corners. This game is our sixteenth tie. https://online-go.com/demo/view/632201

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Game 45 continued at a instead of Q3.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_46.sgf [2.18 KiB]
Downloaded 482 times
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #85 Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:29 pm 
Oza
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Maharani wrote:
No interest in these games whatsoever... Not on the OGS forums, either, nor on Reddit. Do y'all think there's another place where people might be interested?

I am not sure why you expect people to be interested. These are katago self-play games. Why should people find that interesting? Anyone with a PC can generate their own or download millions from the katago site.

The depth of analysis is impressive but, what are the take aways? What are the lessons offered to the reader? How does the evaluation change as the playouts increase and what is the significance? Correct me if I am wrong but, I think you only included analysis in the OP. Since then, you only posted bare sgf's.

_________________
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21

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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #86 Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:01 am 
Lives with ko

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Was liked: 10
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OGS: Maharani
ez4u wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong but, I think you only included analysis in the OP. Since then, you only posted bare sgf's.


I've always posted short descriptions, and five games have been commented on by dan players who seemed to enjoy going through the games. Basically all I'm looking for are more dan players interested to skim through some games and comment on a few moves. :)

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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #87 Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:33 am 
Lives with ko

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Rank: OGS 11 kyu
OGS: Maharani
Game 47 (7 komi, NZ rules) sees black spending four moves to surround white's 4-4 stone by move 21. Of course, that stone ends up living, anyway. Black itself makes six living groups. After it realizes that white is gonna win by 2 points, black starts wasting ko threats and white wins by at least 12 points. https://online-go.com/demo/view/638422

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Fourteen previous games continued at a instead of D16.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_47.sgf [1.86 KiB]
Downloaded 424 times


Last edited by Maharani on Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #88 Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:37 pm 
Lives with ko

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Rank: OGS 11 kyu
OGS: Maharani
Here's an OGS demo board with all of the fuseki I've explored in my KataGo high-playout (NZ rules, 7 komi) games so far. Included are all branching moves up to game move 36 in which (the amount of playouts for a branching move) divided by (the percentage point difference in winrate between that branching move and KataGo's favourite move) was at least ~ 6 million (don't ask, I'm neurotic). https://online-go.com/demo/view/646694


Last edited by Maharani on Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #89 Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:24 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 162
Location: Pasadena, USA
Liked others: 67
Was liked: 10
Rank: OGS 11 kyu
OGS: Maharani
Game 48 (7 komi, NZ rules) was a complicated game with fighting all over the place. Black starts wasting ko threats near the end and loses by at least 12 points. https://online-go.com/review/646658

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Games 68 and 69 will continue at a and b instead of F4, respectively.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . W . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . b . . . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_48.sgf [1.83 KiB]
Downloaded 393 times


Last edited by Maharani on Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:13 am, edited 5 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #90 Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:13 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 162
Location: Pasadena, USA
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Rank: OGS 11 kyu
OGS: Maharani
In game 49 (7 komi, NZ rules) black develops a large right side in exchange for its lower-right corner. Even more trading occurs later on. You know the gist by now - another beautifully balanced tie. https://online-go.com/demo/view/651112

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Game 45 continued at a instead of R16.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X B . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_49.sgf [43.26 KiB]
Downloaded 226 times


Last edited by Maharani on Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #91 Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 1:20 pm 
Lives with ko

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OGS: Maharani
Game 50 (7 komi, NZ rules) sees black getting two large corners plus two living center groups. Of course it's a tie. Our tally currently stands at 10 black wins, 18 ties and 22 white wins. https://online-go.com/review/658057

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Game 46 continued at a instead of P17. At some point, I'll split off a game at b.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a W O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_50.sgf [2.29 KiB]
Downloaded 344 times
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #92 Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 7:01 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 162
Location: Pasadena, USA
Liked others: 67
Was liked: 10
Rank: OGS 11 kyu
OGS: Maharani
Game 51 (7 komi, NZ rules) focuses mostly around complicated center fighting. https://online-go.com/review/664786

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Game 44 continued at a instead of Q11. Next, I'll split off games at b and c.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . a . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_51.sgf [23.82 KiB]
Downloaded 209 times


Last edited by Maharani on Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #93 Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:04 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 162
Location: Pasadena, USA
Liked others: 67
Was liked: 10
Rank: OGS 11 kyu
OGS: Maharani
Maharani wrote:
Game 51 (7 komi, NZ rules) focuses mostly around complicated center fighting. https://online-go.com/review/664786

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Game 44 continued at a instead of Q11. Next, I'll split off games at b and c.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . a . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Antti Törmänen, JPN 1p has reviewed this game! https://www.nordicgodojo.eu/post/848/ka ... selfplay-2

I've updated the .sgf above, with some additional comments by Clydevil ~2d.


Last edited by Maharani on Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #94 Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:34 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 162
Location: Pasadena, USA
Liked others: 67
Was liked: 10
Rank: OGS 11 kyu
OGS: Maharani
Game 52 (7 komi, NZ rules) was another tie: https://online-go.com/review/670516

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Game 62 will continue at a instead of H4.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . a . . . . X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . W . X . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Game 53 (7 komi, NZ rules) was our first game with a taisha variation (won by white): https://online-go.com/review/676958

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Game 54 continues at a instead of C15.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . W a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Game 54 (7 komi, NZ rules) was another tie, bringing our current tally to 10 black wins, 21 ties and 23 white wins: https://online-go.com/review/680593

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc In the future, I'll split off a game at a instead of P13.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . a . . . . . . X . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_54.sgf [2.49 KiB]
Downloaded 267 times
kg_7_komi_game_53.sgf [1.75 KiB]
Downloaded 271 times
kg_7_komi_game_52.sgf [3.03 KiB]
Downloaded 262 times


Last edited by Maharani on Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #95 Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:03 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 162
Location: Pasadena, USA
Liked others: 67
Was liked: 10
Rank: OGS 11 kyu
OGS: Maharani
Game 55 (7 komi, NZ rules) was another absolutely riveting game, with giant territories on both sides, which as a human, I love to see: https://online-go.com/demo/view/688006

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc The opening. Try to guess final board ownership.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O O . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | W X O X . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_55.sgf [27.64 KiB]
Downloaded 128 times


Last edited by Maharani on Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #96 Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:02 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 162
Location: Pasadena, USA
Liked others: 67
Was liked: 10
Rank: OGS 11 kyu
OGS: Maharani
Maharani wrote:
In game 49 (7 komi, NZ rules) black develops a large right side in exchange for its lower-right corner. Even more trading occurs later on. You know the gist by now - another beautifully balanced tie. https://online-go.com/demo/view/651112

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Game 45 continued at a instead of R16.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Anton Christenson, EGF 3d did a 67-minute YouTube review of this game! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfv-zgFAIAo

I’ve added all of his (commented) variations, plus more KataGo variations, to the OGS review as well.

I've also added more high-playout KataGo variations to the game reviewed by Antti Törmänen, JPN 1p.

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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #97 Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:14 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 162
Location: Pasadena, USA
Liked others: 67
Was liked: 10
Rank: OGS 11 kyu
OGS: Maharani
Can white save its center dragon in game 56 (7 komi, NZ rules) to secure a win? https://online-go.com/review/696161

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Games 56, 57 and 61 continue at Q3. Games 58, 59 and 60 will continue at a instead.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_56.sgf [1.54 KiB]
Downloaded 178 times
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #98 Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:49 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 162
Location: Pasadena, USA
Liked others: 67
Was liked: 10
Rank: OGS 11 kyu
OGS: Maharani
Game 57 (7 komi, NZ rules) ended up as a draw where everything lived pretty much how you'd have expected around move 150, but don't let that fool you. For a while, some insane trades were on the table, as reflected by the score chart... https://online-go.com/review/704031

Image

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Game 56 continued at a instead of Q7. In the future, I'll split off a game at b.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Game 58 (7 komi, NZ rules) in which black develops a huge center moyo is beautiful IMO. Notable moves: 57 - So cool. :) 182 - After playing this move, KataGo realized that white was winning by 2 points. Black casually wastes some ko threats and ends up losing by 4 points. https://online-go.com/review/709402

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Games 58 and 60 continue at Q16. Game 59 continues at a instead.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . W X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



In game 59 (7 komi, NZ rules), the lower-right looks almost like a "joseki" in that moves 13 - 43 are almost throughout the same moves favoured by the policy network. On the board, it looks intricately balanced too. So cool. M8 seems to finish the position. https://online-go.com/demo/view/717111

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc The opening. White to play.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . O X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X O . O X . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_59.sgf [2.34 KiB]
Downloaded 106 times
kg_7_komi_game_58.sgf [2.05 KiB]
Downloaded 106 times
kg_7_komi_game_57.sgf [2.49 KiB]
Downloaded 101 times
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #99 Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:25 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 162
Location: Pasadena, USA
Liked others: 67
Was liked: 10
Rank: OGS 11 kyu
OGS: Maharani
Black loses game 60 (7 komi, NZ rules) despite capturing a large white group by move 133. https://online-go.com/review/722242

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Game 58 continued at a instead of Q13.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . O X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Game 61 (7 komi, NZ rules) starts out with a complex bottom-right fight that eventually spills into the center. https://online-go.com/review/725546

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Game 57 continued at a instead of P4.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



The opening of game 62 (7 komi, NZ rules) looks so alien and yet beautifully balanced. By move 112, black has at least a 20-plus-points lead in solid territory (diagram below by Clydevil, ~2d). Move 120 is a casual 7th-line shoulder hit. At move 186, white is about 16 points ahead. I think around move 145 is where black starts wasting ko threats. https://online-go.com/demo/view/730096

Image

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc The opening. White to play.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . . O . X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . O . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . O . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . X O . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Attachments:
kg_7_komi_game_62.sgf [1.46 KiB]
Downloaded 102 times
kg_7_komi_game_61.sgf [2.02 KiB]
Downloaded 106 times
kg_7_komi_game_60.sgf [1.94 KiB]
Downloaded 101 times
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 Post subject: Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games
Post #100 Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:29 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 162
Location: Pasadena, USA
Liked others: 67
Was liked: 10
Rank: OGS 11 kyu
OGS: Maharani
Maharani wrote:
Game 55 (7 komi, NZ rules) was another absolutely riveting game, with giant territories on both sides, which as a human, I love to see: https://online-go.com/demo/view/688006

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc The opening. Try to guess final board ownership.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O O . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | W X O X . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


.sgf:



Anton Christenson, EGF 3d did a 45-minute YouTube review of this game! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqGcwLnngGY

I’ve added all of his (commented) variations, plus more KataGo variations, to the OGS review as well.

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