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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #301 Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:58 pm 
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This can't be caused by the type of network since the file dialog doesn't look into the files. It just shows all filenames which end with .bin.gz or .txt.gz

So either:
1) The transfer from PC somehow changed the file extension
or
2) BadukAI doesn't have permission to read the folder where you put the network

You could try downloading the network directly from the "Network File" column on katagotraining.org/networks via browser on your phone. Then go to "Download" folder in BadukAI's model selection dialog. It should be there ...

Furthermore BadukAI may have no "Storage access" permission (after uninstalling and installing a new version, you have to grant this again). How to check that depends a little on the android version, but usually a long press on the app icon brings up a context dialog with an item like "details". After tapping that, a lot of information about the app is displayed, including permissions.

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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #302 Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:55 pm 
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Yeah, I tried to download the file from the site and it worked. And I also figured that if i rename it to smth like "Kg40b.gz" it doesn't work but it doesn when it's "Kg40b.bin.gz", so that ".bin" thing seems to be essential.
Anyways, now it all works perfectly fine, thank u veru much!

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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #303 Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:38 pm 
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I actually just realized that u already told me that there needs to be .bin, I somehow missed that. Thanks again for such a detail answer.
And one more question, I hope I am not repeating it. Those nets I download myself are not getting optimized, aren't they? 20b works way faster than 15b and only a bit slower than 6b. I just want to prove whenever it's normal or I can make them work faster somehow.

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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #304 Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:41 pm 
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Zeed wrote:
And one more question, I hope I am not repeating it. Those nets I download myself are not getting optimized, aren't they? 20b works way faster than 15b and only a bit slower than 6b. I just want to prove whenever it's normal or I can make them work faster somehow.


You are right, nets you download yourself are not optimized. That's because the optimization takes a long time, is not completely automatic and needs tools that are not running on android. So unfortunately it can't be done "on the fly" in the app.

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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #305 Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:20 pm 
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Can you provide scripts to optimize weight? So we can change the weight we like. :tmbup:

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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #306 Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:28 pm 
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akigo wrote:
Zeed wrote:
And one more question, I hope I am not repeating it. Those nets I download myself are not getting optimized, aren't they? 20b works way faster than 15b and only a bit slower than 6b. I just want to prove whenever it's normal or I can make them work faster somehow.


You are right, nets you download yourself are not optimized. That's because the optimization takes a long time, is not completely automatic and needs tools that are not running on android. So unfortunately it can't be done "on the fly" in the app.


Can you provide scripts to optimize weight? So we can change the weight we like. :tmbup:

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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #307 Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:41 pm 
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lovego wrote:

Can you provide scripts to optimize weight? So we can change the weight we like.


It's not that simple, because:

1) The optimization needs a complex environment of third-party tools. I built that for myself over a couple of months with a lot of "trial and error" diversions. So I couldn't even give a straightforward recipe how to get there from scratch (to do that, I would have to restart from scratch again myself, and I don't have the time to do that).

2) These tools have some bugs, that have to be corrected manually during the optimization process, so anybody doing this can't just run a script, he has to understand exactly what's going on.

3) The optimization is different for each type of network, e.g. for the new KataGo 40b ones it doesn't exist yet, I still have to develop it.


This post by akigo was liked by 2 people: And, go4thewin
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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #308 Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:46 pm 
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I'm curious - is this some sort of quantization plus fine-tuning using data to limit the accuracy loss due to the quantization?

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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #309 Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:28 pm 
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lightvector wrote:
I'm curious - is this some sort of quantization plus fine-tuning using data to limit the accuracy loss due to the quantization?


Yes, that perfectly sums it up in one sentence.

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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #310 Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:34 pm 
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Can you provide the optimized weight of the latest katago 40b s580 :salute:
I think it must be better than the current 20b

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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #311 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:49 pm 
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lovego wrote:
Can you provide the optimized weight of the latest katago 40b s580 :salute:
I think it must be better than the current 20b


Not yet (see part (3) of my answer to your last post), but it's on my todo list.

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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #312 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:38 pm 
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I made a new preliminary version (1.4), up to now only available on github

https://github.com/aki65/aki65.github.io/releases/tag/v1.4.0
or
https://aki65.github.io

It is a little experimental as I added a new network acceleration method which kicks in if the existing one doesn't work to full extent because the required hardware is not available. Together with 32/64 bit this makes up for a lot of possibilities (depending on device type) which I can't check all on my own device, so I kindly ask for your help:

@go4thewin
From your earlier posts I know that you have a 64 bit device where the existing acceleration fully worked. Could you please check if it still works as before with the new version (KG and LZ) ?

@And
You own a 32 bit device where the existing acceleration fully worked. Could you also please check if the new version works as before ?

@Heinz-Dieter Conradi
From your github posts I know that yown a OnePlus 8 Pro where the existing acceleration did NOT work to full extent (only 50% better than original). On your device type the new method should improve speed significantly (for both LZ and KG). Could you please check if this really works ?

If all tests go well, I will make the new version official and put it on play store.

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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #313 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:10 pm 
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perfect as always for me, instant moves with 1 playout snapdragon 625. i think it may have gotten even faster, thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #314 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:00 pm 
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Great app! thank you very much

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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #315 Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:39 am 
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on tablet (MT8735M) KG 20b works also fast (~ 50 visits/min from starting position)
here https://www.mediatek.com/products/tablets/mt8735m it is written that the processor is 64bit, but the 64bit version is not installed. probably android 32 bit
I'll check for mt8321 today

and thanks again !!! :D


Last edited by And on Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #316 Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:14 am 
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I had this idea the other day, that what if there was a kind of a similar mobile helper app to go as there is for Pokemon Go. More precisely what I had in mind was an A.I. helper that I can bring in to analyze with just a few button presses wherever the game is on.

tldr; An overlay button that you can show over other mobile go apps like wbaduk's or goquest or whatever, and when pressed while watching the game in wbaduk/goquest etc, it would recreate the board to this other app (preferably baduk ai or something with as good A.I. tools) for easy import without the need of sgf hassle.

In Pokemon Go there are third party tools to get more information about the game, and the most popular ones work by overlaying that information on top of the Pokemon Go screen. The most basic function that most players use is this small round button that appears on top of Pokemon Go, and whenever they press the button, the app takes a screenshot of what it sees and analyzes it and then pops up an overlay window on top of the game window showing the information it gathered from the screenshot. Sometimes the screenshot can't capture everything and it prompts you to add extra information manually. You can this way get more information and save stats from in-game to the other app etc. Below is a youtube video showing some features of this in the most popular one, Calcy IV. At 2mins 30s part the overlayed blue round "calcy iv button" is seen on the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQJIjF4--_M&?t=02m30s

So for the game of Go there could be a similar app that has the overlay function which could show an overlay button, and whenever pressed, it would then collect information from the screen, and if it was a go board, it could get you the board position (quite) instantly without the need of saving, loading or moving around sgf files, heck I haven't even bothered to find out how I can save the sgf file of an ongoing game on the android wbaduk client. So after this the app would popup an overlay window asking about prisoners for both players (if not able to determine from the screenshot) and whether there are active ko's (illegal moves, if not able to determine from the screenshot) and whose turn is next (if not able to determine from the screenshot). With only just above information entered manually, you could then recreate the board position in the app and then analyze it with an A.I. As the go board looks pretty similar across most go apps, you should be able to use this overlay function easily with other go apps?

Then if we want to go even further, there could be another button (maybe accessible similarly with the long press like the other buttons in Pokemon Go's Calcy IV, that would open your phone's camera, and you could then move that over a real physical go board (or go game on a PC screen), and the app would then recreate the position from the real world goban into the app. I guess this would require a bit more in depth pattern recognition in the apps code to be able to recreate the position.

edit: Or perhaps instead of baking this feature into an existing AI analyzing app it could work as yet another app? An overlay app that takes a screenshot of phone screen or picture of real life goban and takes extra manual input (prisoners, illegal moves) to generate an sgf file if you prefer that only has a stillshot of a given board situation (no move history) and then has a direct link in the app to send it to another app like badukai. I guess this kind of modularity could be flexible(?), but you would then end up running say wbaduk, badukai and the third app all at the same time. However if you can get that all done with as few taps on the phone screen as possible with the help of shortcuts and gestures in the Android, I guess it could be useful this way too.

What do you think? Would you guys find this kind of feature useful? And those with the programming know-how, would it be hard to implement?

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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #317 Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:09 pm 
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These are very interesting ideas.

I'd like to mention that you can get a kind of "static version" of your camera idea with existing apps:

Install the app "ImgToSgf" from play store.
Then you can take a picture from a real go board with your camera (or make a screenshot from any go app). Share the resulting image to the app "ImgToSgf". The app will pop up and detect the go board within the image. After completion it will activate a "Share" button by which you can share the resulting position to "BadukAI". Then BadukAI will pop up with the position and you can analyze it.

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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #318 Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:15 am 
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on tablet (MT8321) KG 20b works also fast, ~ 34 visits/min from starting position, LZ 40b ~ 17 visits/min from starting position. the difference with the previous version is not visible

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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #319 Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:09 pm 
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@And
@go4thewin
Thank you very much for testing.

From the feedback it seems that the optimization in 1.4 works at least as well as in 1.3, so I put version 1.4 into play store. Further changes are:

If you are at the end of the game sequence, the ">" button is useless, so it now mutates into an "undo" button in this situation. In contrast to the "<" button, "undo" does not only go back, but deletes the last move played. This is helpful, if you want to correct a misclick.

The built-in 40b network for LeelaZero is now based on LZ 286 (before it originated from LZ 273).


This post by akigo was liked by: And
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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #320 Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:13 pm 
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akigo cool! It seems you are the author of that app aswell, I'm excited and surprised in a way :) It's just one step too much I have to take a screenshot and save it to the phone memory before proceeding to the next step so I don't bother to try it just now, but maybe I'll try when I check some slow paced big match from the east the next time⎄

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