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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #81 Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:03 pm 
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I made a new version (0.7)

@And
I added a checkbox "winrate on play" in settings. If checked, winrates are displayed for moves of the full AI (the calibrated bot does not calculate winrates for his moves, so nothing can be shown when he plays)

@go4thewin
I added a button "Edit config" in settings for KataGo. On tap, a popup dialog opens where you can edit the three parameters you suggested. Saving them will trigger a restart of KataGo to activate the new values. Keep in mind that KataGo always respects thinking time ("sec/move" from settings). So, if you want it to run a fixed number of playouts in any case, set "sec/move" to a very high value so that it never becomes a constraint.


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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #82 Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:10 pm 
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This is the best go ai opponent available. Probably stronger at 1 thread 1 playout than crazystone 5d setting. Its even compatible with chromebook laptops. You are a genious. Complete 30k (15kyu-rank 20b) to 9 dan (40b 1 thread 9 playouts) available to anyone with a $100 smartphone. With analysis and everything. Also, who would have thought katago would have played so fast on android? >20 of the settings (ddk to 5 dan) only use 1 playout. Wow
edit: revised ai strength recommendations attached


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Last edited by go4thewin on Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #83 Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:21 am 
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@akigo
thanks!!! wonderful!

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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #84 Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:23 am 
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I understand the rules of Tromp-Taylor correctly, suicidal moves are allowed, but only if it's not one stone? because this leads to a repetition of the position, and this is prohibited

in the second game, the last move of black does not break the rules?
sgf saved by BadukAI


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BadukAI - CS.sgf [2.48 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #85 Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:44 am 
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I don’t understand why KataGo plays so poorly with kyu_rank. in the previous post (KG g170e 15 block d466M 4d, CS 4d) in the first game CS B +109.5, in the second he also wins by a large margin. -3 in the settings is it 4d?

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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #86 Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:18 am 
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When I was playing around with it I had -3 with the 20b at around 2k strength. -5 = maybe 1k. I think the 20b is stronger at the higher kyu ranks than the 15b, 15b has more suicide also. Its really hard to get the kyu_ranks into dan, maybe the 15b 1 thread 1 playout with 2 handicap stones would be 1 dan? At 1 dan, better just play against 15b -t1 -p1 until its defeated (2d?), then 20b -t1 -p1 (4d?), then I would think the 40b 1 thread 1 playout (5d?) would beat cs 5 dan. at -8 kyu rank it loses. 40b at -8 kyu rank might also be 1 dan.

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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #87 Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:39 am 
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but then what is it about?
https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?p=260196#p260196

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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #88 Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:42 am 
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those are based on estimates by the katrain developer. By testing the bots on ogs, he used those estimates. I used breakwa rankings cgos and what I could get from humans playing the bots on reddit. who knows? :)

these bots are ranked on ogs. For example kyu-rank -1 plays as katrain-2d and has a 1k ranking. The policy plays as katrain-strong.


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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #89 Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:46 am 
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thanks! unfortunately on my tablets 20 blocks are terribly freeze, impossible to use! and 40 - :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #90 Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:49 am 
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i definitely understand, i use a lot of slower hardware too. Get this tablet https://www.ebay.com/i/264884164020?chn ... jKEALw_wcB
it runs all the nets very fast! even baduk ai gpu version works.


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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #91 Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:54 am 
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Oh no. I've saved up 5 :shock: tablets and smartphone! enough !!! I do not even play 1 dan, so somehow later


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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #92 Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:12 am 
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@And

I loaded your sgf and let the kyu bot play many times: It never played on that point. And looking at the internals, it considers the point as illegal. So I'm sorry, I can't explain that behaviour at the moment.

But looking at the position it's not a great loss to be unable to continue ...

As for the strength of the kyu bot: In addition to the remarks by go4thewin you have to keep in mind that it only considers a random subset of the moves. So there is a huge element of chance in its play. Hence, it sometimes makes mistakes that are way below its average strength. In order to get a reliable estimate of its average strength at a certain level you would have to play really many games.

If that variance in play is a nuisance to you, you could also try using the 6b network with 1 thread, 1 playout. This might also deliver kyu strength.


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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #93 Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:15 am 
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maybe add Chinese rules on occasion?

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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #94 Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:31 am 
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@akigo
I ran this game on an emulator and there is a root. I can upload the log file if interested, and if it is there :)

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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #95 Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:02 am 
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i found the log file but can't find this game. unclear

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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #96 Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:20 pm 
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I don't know who did it, but thanks !!! I haven't solved puzzles with such pleasure in a long time!
I am posting a log file here and who cares, try to find a game with a forbidden move! (https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?p=260283#p260283)

solution
for mysterious reasons, the game in sgf and the log is recorded differently! that is, the coordinates must be mirrored along the diagonal a1 - t19! but do not touch the position! that is, in the sgf the last moves are g16, j12, j11, k13, and in the log q7, m9, l9, n10


@akigo
illegal move in line
2020-10-03 18:52:00+0400: Controller: 1159 play black N10


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20201003-180621-25D4F99B.LOG.GZ [656.76 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #97 Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:05 pm 
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@And

thank you very much for the log file, that explained everything:

The bug is that suicide moves are not taken back (when you navigate by tapping in the histogram or by the arrow buttons). Shame on me, I didn't yet know they were legal (if more than one stone) with Tromp-Taylor when writing this part of the code.

In case of your sgf this has the following consequence: In the first game there were 315 real moves (rest was pass) including one suicide move (the last one). Because of the bug, only 314 undos were sent to KataGo, so in KataGo's memory the first stone of the first game (hoshi in the top right corner) was still there. So the kyu bot played a different game than that visible on the screen. If that black hoshi stone would have been there, a lot of white stones would have been captured during the game, and at the end the move, that the kyu bot played, would have been legal.

This is also the reason that the kyu bot often played so "badly" in the second (and consecutive) games. Whenever there was a suicide move in the first game (i.e. almost always) it "saw" additional stones in consecutive games.

I will fix this bug in the next version, but for the time being there is an easy workaround: Just restart KataGo after finishing one game (easiest way is "Edit config", don't change anything, then "Save", then BadukAI will restart KataGo to apply the parameters).


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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #98 Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:16 pm 
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I thank you again! and I'm glad there is an explanation and a solution! good luck to you!!!

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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #99 Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 10:48 am 
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BadukAI (KG 10b, 2s/move) - CSDL 5d 1:1 (CS B +R, KG B +R)


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 Post subject: Re: New android app "BadukAI"
Post #100 Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:22 am 
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nice to see the 10b beat crazystone! in case you were curious, the s167 15b can beat the s5303 20b policy by using 6 playouts max (1 thread) :tmbup:
revised:
Attachment:
Notepad15.pdf [170.08 KiB]
Downloaded 71 times


edit: also if you dont want to use kyu_rank, 6b Katago 4 playouts (1 thread) vs gnugo level 10 - 4:0


Last edited by go4thewin on Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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