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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #21 Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:11 pm 
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I hope s572 or s570 is the net that gets optimized. It's strong enough now that no/few users will have to play against more than one playout. Great for a mobile app!

Just like against cs zero 9d, It also beat the strongest 7d rank on zen 6 (gui version, I have not tried gtp4zen). Using 1 playout, playing as white with no komi, zen resigned after 200 moves; s572 was leading by >70. zen 6 is a strong program that many dan players love to play against.
http://go.ba.net/playgo/go.html?sgf=3mDscV5Cq.sgf
https://ibb.co/GFTLG7j

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #22 Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:11 am 
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KataGo s572 playouts 1 - Zenith 7 9d:


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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #23 Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:39 am 
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with the same time settings, CS Zero plays stronger
CS Zero 10 sec - Zenith 7 10 sec 14:6
CS Zero 60 sec - Zenith 7 60 sec 12:8
but when playing 9d it seemed to me that Zenith 7 is stronger. KataGo s572 playouts 1 without Komi could not win against Zenith 7


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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #24 Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:33 am 
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thanks for this, i was curious about it!

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #25 Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:04 am 
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KataGo s572 playouts 1 - LZ #286 playouts 5, LZ surrenders on move 171

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #26 Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:55 pm 
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New distributed training run should be now open for anyone to connect!

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18019
https://www.reddit.com/r/baduk/comments ... ributions/


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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #27 Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:26 pm 
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Hi lightvector,

Are any of your contributors using Mac? I’m happy to help, but I'm probably a bad choice for a pioneer. My GPU's aren’t bad though.

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Want to see videos of low-dan mistakes and what to learn from them? Brady's Blunders

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #28 Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:53 am 
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This is just an idle thought, but would it make sense to increase the number of visits in self-play games in the later stages of a training run (i.e. now)?

My thought is that reinforcement learning will converge to a plateau where the approximation loss (e.g. the trained policy is 400 elo points weaker than the player it is approximating) equals the gain from tree search (e.g. 600 visits is 400 elo points stronger than 1 visit).

To move past the plateau it's necessary to either improve the approximator (e.g. by increasing network size) or approximate a stronger player (e.g. by increasing visits in search). I know KataGo already uses the former, but what about the latter?

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #29 Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:06 am 
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wineandgolover wrote:
Hi lightvector,

Are any of your contributors using Mac? I’m happy to help, but I'm probably a bad choice for a pioneer. My GPU's aren’t bad though.


Unfortunately I don't own a Mac, and don't have a great way to compile and test myself. I expect probably some people are using Mac for this, but if so, it's mainly going to be through building from source on their own. Which probably is not *too* hard, since (unlike Windows) I think package management and installation of libraries on Mac is pretty easy, similar to Linux? Things are a bit wordy here: https://github.com/lightvector/KataGo/b ... mpiling.md but the actual process is not hard (except on Windows).

Right now the release process is also a bit time-consuming for me, to compile everything on my own personal computers (windows and linux) and package stuff up. If someone were willing to put in the effort to help set up a more automated build process for releases, which could maybe include Mac as well, that would be fantastic.


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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #30 Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:32 am 
Gosei
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KataGo s581 playouts 1, komi 0 - Zenith 7 9d:


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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #31 Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:41 am 
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How to beat Zen without even thinking.


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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #32 Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:56 am 
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but in reality it was not easy - after 157 moves Zen winrate showed 83, and KataGo (if it is a winrate) W -85.92c
therefore this victory is more expensive!

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #33 Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:10 am 
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KataGo s585 playouts 1 - Zen 9d H2 1:3


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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #34 Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:32 am 
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And, sorry probably stupid question but do you think s585 would beat zen 9 dan >50% in even games? Thanks for the games!

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #35 Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:35 am 
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interesting! I'll play the match for the night!
I find it difficult to answer, since victories with a sufficient share of "luck" :)


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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #36 Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:32 am 
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Thanks And!

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #37 Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:22 am 
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KataGo s585 playouts 1 - Zen 9d, komi 7.5, 14:6, KG W 7:3, B 7:3. 70%!


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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #38 Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:12 am 
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will the network be strong enough to win against 9 dan with a 9 stone handicap with 1 playouts? it seems incredible!

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #39 Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:56 am 
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I couldn't even believe your results. When I first saw it, I thought you must have set maxPlayouts to 1 but forgot to limit the numSearchthreads to 1 so it ran extra playouts, but when I ran two game I got the same result, 2:0, wow. The next bot to defeat is golaxy's elephant bot on 19x19.com, which they rate as "1p". I thought the katago policy would never defeat it or zen 7, but now I think soon it will defeat the elephant. This is amazing. Thanks And!


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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #40 Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:35 am 
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It seemed to me that the LZ is performing more than the set playouts, if you do not limit numSearchThreads. in KataGo, I did not limit this parameter, and the log file shows that only 1 playouts are being executed (always)


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