SmartGo Books

judicata · **#21**

Responding to John Fairbairn "iGrumpy".

While the Ishi format didn't take off (as a testament to that, I hadn't even heard of it before), other things did develop. The compuer is the primary conduit through which I get game reviews, though I certainly have my share of books.

I don't really care if the iPad goes the way of the dodo (I have a love-hate relationship with Apple), but I just don't think it will be inconsequential in 10 years. Look at the iPod--its current iterations (of which the iPhone really is), are extremely consequential: if it isn't an iThing, it will inevitably be compared with one.

But, to the extent you imply or assume that e-books will not replace books anytime soon, I agree. The market for e-books is still much smaller than people realize, given the limited population that own the devices. The medium's development has already taken several unexpected twists and turns, and I'm sure there are several more to come.

Finally, hey, I really enjoy my new device and the SmartGo program, so I'm going to express that. I never intend to rub anyone's nose in it, or communicate some notion of superiority. Just like I really enjoyed my first computer (an XT with PC-DOS) way back when.

Redbeard · **#22**

imabuddha wrote:

Of course nothing lasts forever, but I think Apple will still be viable in 10 years. Also, the foundation of SmartGo Books is an enhanced version of SGF, which has had far more staying power than the Ishi go format. I'm pretty sure SGF will still be commonly used in 10 years too. :study:

Of course, the only reason the SGF format is still viable is because it became an open standard that others could implement. The Ishi format remained proprietary and only lasted as long as the Ishi Press company. If this "enhanced" SGF format remains exclusively for Apple devices chances are these books will go the same way.

/iGrumpy2

Chew Terr · **#23**

Hey, if we're talking tech? BluRay is more proprietary and finicky than HD-DVD ever was, so there are examples of huge megacorps being able to keep their proprietary formats under fire.

1986 · **#24**

I think judicata asked something about adjusting the speed of watching diagrams

Well I'm able to press on the bottom of the diag and slowly slide my finger to the right and the sequences play out like that without hitting play and u can control the speed

Hope it helps

imabuddha · **#25**

Redbeard wrote:

Of course, the only reason the SGF format is still viable is because it became an open standard that others could implement. The Ishi format remained proprietary and only lasted as long as the Ishi Press company. If this "enhanced" SGF format remains exclusively for Apple devices chances are these books will go the same way.

/iGrumpy2

I'm not privy to Anders' plans for the future of the format, nor when (or if) the SmartGo Books app will appear on other platforms. That said, I do hope that go books in this format will become widely available to those who do not have (or wish to have) an iOS device.

SmartGo Books has only been available for one day now; this is just the beginning. SmartGo isn't a mega-corp, so it would be unreasonable to expect a simultaneous release on multiple platforms. I think the reason it made its debut on iOS is due to the fact that it's a rapidly growing market, currently of over 100 million devices, with an easy to use store/payment system.

Personally, I'd like to see the SmartGo program available for Mac OS. It's only on Windows® currently. :sad:

imabuddha · **#26**

From another thread: (viewtopic.php?p=58006#p58006)

John Fairbairn wrote:

What I would respect more (indeed would welcome) is an e-book convert who acts successfully instead of talks. But talk is cheap and I'll hold off on my praise until I see that it works, and in the meantine will urge caution. In view of the recent banking debacle, I'd be specially wary of someone who sells himself as a risk-taker. More, if someone was about to fall off a cliff, I believe I would actively try to save them. If that makes me seem negative, so be it. But if I missed and they flew instead of falling, I'm certain I would be the first to smile in pleasure and wonderment. We grumpy old men are not as grumpy as all that.

While it's too early to make any claims about its financial success, I'd say keep your eyes open iGrumpy, this ebook convert is flying.

Now where's that smile?

smartgo · **#27**

Redbeard wrote:

<obligatory when will it be available for Android post>
When will it be available for Android?
</obligatory when will it be available for Android post>

Sorry, no plans yet for Android. But assuming this turns out to be a success, and Android tablets turn out to be a success, I would certainly like to make it available on other platforms. And compared to SmartGo Kifu, SmartGo Books has significantly less UI and code that would need to be ported to another platform.

smartgo · **#28**

Redbeard wrote:

imabuddha wrote:

... the foundation of SmartGo Books is an enhanced version of SGF, which has had far more staying power than the Ishi go format. I'm pretty sure SGF will still be commonly used in 10 years too.

Of course, the only reason the SGF format is still viable is because it became an open standard that others could implement. The Ishi format remained proprietary and only lasted as long as the Ishi Press company. If this "enhanced" SGF format remains exclusively for Apple devices chances are these books will go the same way.

The SGF Kifu format that's used in SmartGo Books is a work in progress. I'm happy to share the current draft with prospective authors, but I foresee significant changes, so I'm not promoting this as a standard for now. For example, the current version works well for annotated games, but is cumbersome for explanatory books like "Basic Techniques".
The book view in SmartGo Kifu works pretty much like SmartGo Books, except limited to one game at a time. To see some examples of SGF Kifu in action, look at the SGF for annotated games that come with SmartGo Kifu, especially game 9 from "Thick and Strong" and the game from "Go Consultants".

hyperpape · **#29**

John, I bet Westerners read far more game commentaries in sgf form than on paper. Perhaps that indicates that computer commentaries are the way of the future, in the sense that they'll dominate. Of course facts concerning the other 99% of the world's go players may be relevant to the future of the game.

What dominates numerically may not be what's best. Consider the booze most people drink. That's certainly true of most commentaries we read--some are quite good, but they're not like what's in Invincible.

P.S iContrived

longazan · **#30**

I want to buy some of the books but don't know how to pay for it. Can I pay using iTunes gift card or do I need to use a credit/debit card?

smartgo · **#31**

longazan wrote:

I want to buy some of the books but don't know how to pay for it. Can I pay using iTunes gift card or do I need to use a credit/debit card?

As far as I know, you need an iTunes account. If you have an iTunes gift card, you should be able to use that to add credit to your account, and then use that account to purchase the book.

kirkmc · **#32**

John Fairbairn wrote:

iI certainly don't want to rain on anyone's parade (although iApple people do tend to inspire such desires), and, as has been observed, iI am actually part of the parade and so am definitely not against e-books. But on behalf of not just iAndroid people but also people who don't even want to contemplate the latest gizmos, let me recall that I can remember when personal computers first became widespread (e.g. iTandy iTRS-80) and iIshi iPress were convinced their new iIshi iFormat was "the way iGo books were meant to be read".

They issued a series of discs with iGo iWorld commentaries that could be read on a computer. I also remember the excitement when a 1 iMB floppy came along. This was big news also for iGoGoD (even then we went with the flow). We could even get 300 games on a disk. iT iMark even managed to transcribe all the 800+ iGo iSeigen games then available (since copied many times without acknowledgement, thanks to the same technology).

iWe thought then that that was a lifetime's achievement. iSeveral lifetimes later, we see that computers and go are now indeed in a symbiotic relationship, but the iIshi format virtually disappeared, game commentaries on computers never really took off (iBob iMyers a few years ago tried a version with flashing stones and fancy arrows and even that didn't catch on), and of course the expected accompanying upsurge in people joining national associations (or go markets) never materialised. iThe reality was that, as ever, the iLaw of iUnintended iConsequences took over and the symbiosis took unexpected turns. iSome, such as the development of go servers, seem to be entirely benign. iI hope I can say the development of the iGoGoD database was also unexpected and benign.

iThe development of go e-books will, iI expect, take equally unexpected twists. iLooking back in ten years time, iI suspect iApple and iPad will just seem as inconsequential as iTandy, iRadio iShack and the iTRS-80 do now. iBut I was as bowled over by my iTRS-80 as iPad people are by their new toy, and iI hope they get as much pleasure as iI did. iStill, it might be as well to remember this is a public forum, and a little less hype might be more tasteful. iIt would surely be more rational.

iGrumpy

The Ishi format didn't disappear, it was replaced by the more flexible SGF. And it was just a format, not a display. What's new here is the way you can embed diagrams in a book, and move through those diagrams. In a perfect world, the pages of print books would allow that, and I'd predict that we may even see that one day. But don't confuse a way of encapsulating data (a format) with a way of presenting it.

kirkmc · **#33**

imabuddha wrote:

Personally, I'd like to see the SmartGo program available for Mac OS. It's only on Windows® currently. :sad:

Ditto. And I'd like to see KGS for iOS as well. But we all know where that's going...

imabuddha · **#34**

kirkmc wrote:

imabuddha wrote:

Personally, I'd like to see the SmartGo program available for Mac OS. It's only on Windows® currently. :sad:

Ditto. And I'd like to see KGS for iOS as well. But we all know where that's going...

Heh, I'd bet real money that SmartGo is released for Mac OS before KGS appears on iOS. :lol:

I would like to see both, although I've given up on KGS.

Mivo · **#35**

imabuddha wrote:

Heh, I'd bet real money that SmartGo is released for Mac OS before KGS appears on iOS. :lol:

If you bet enough, wms might decide that he wants to win.

quantumf · **#36**

I tried it on my iPod touch, and it worked amazingly well. However, I couldn't figure out what the icons on the left were supposed to do, if anything, I'm referring to the three dots and triangle. I couldn't readily find any help, either in the app, or on the smartgo website.

imabuddha · **#37**

quantumf wrote:

I tried it on my iPod touch, and it worked amazingly well. However, I couldn't figure out what the icons on the left were supposed to do, if anything, I'm referring to the three dots and triangle. I couldn't readily find any help, either in the app, or on the smartgo website.

I think you're talking about the icons that appear at the bottom left of a diagram when it's been tapped. Touching any of them and keeping your finger down allows you to navigate forwards or backwards through the moves by moving your finger right or left. It's an alternative to the automatic playback.

Redbeard · **#38**

imabuddha wrote:

Heh, I'd bet real money that SmartGo is released for Mac OS before ~~KGS appears on~~ iOS supports Java. :lol:

Fixed that for you

imabuddha · **#39**

Redbeard wrote:

imabuddha wrote:

Heh, I'd bet real money that SmartGo is released for Mac OS before ~~KGS appears on~~ iOS supports Java. :lol:

Fixed that for you

Just like Adobe Flash, iOS is better without it. Luckily for those who want either, there's Android. :salute:

Redbeard · **#40**

imabuddha wrote:

Redbeard wrote:

imabuddha wrote:

Heh, I'd bet real money that SmartGo is released for Mac OS before ~~KGS appears on~~ iOS supports Java. :lol:

Fixed that for you

Just like Adobe Flash, iOS is better without it. Luckily for those who want either, there's Android. :salute:

That's all very good, but if there is no Java there is no KGS. I just want it clear that WMS is not keeping KGS off of iOS, Apple is.
Thankfully, it looks like SmartGo does not have that limitation, so the only thing holding it back from other platforms is time, effort, and marketplace. I'm looking forward to being able to run SmartGo Books on a non-Apple device someday.

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