I know that 3D-printers can handle calcium carbonate, which is the substance that make up most clamshells. It's also possible to 3D-print calcium phosphate, essentially teeth enamel.

I wonder if anyone has tried to 3D-print a clamshell Go stone? I'd imagine it'd be fairly easy to mimic the lines of a natural clam shell stone. With some surface polishing, the end product should look pretty nice.

This ought to be an interesting Kickstarter project. Anyone interested?

Awesome idea, I’d definitely support that with a few €€.


<edit>

But what about the black stones?

</edit>

_________________
“The only difference between me and a madman is that I’m not mad.” — Salvador Dali ★ Play a slooooow correspondence game with me on OGS?

Those could easily be made the regular way. It is only clam which is in short supply.

_________________
Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

Well, what you say is true now, but it won’t be some time in the future, so … I’d think that producing them the same way seems better to me than making more holes into the planet …

(Of course the whole ecological footprint of producing them should be taken into account.)

_________________
“The only difference between me and a madman is that I’m not mad.” — Salvador Dali ★ Play a slooooow correspondence game with me on OGS?

Double-convex would not print easily. If you do not add supports then you will have a high failure rate due to the small contact patch with the work-table. If you do add supports you will need to laboriously remove them from the finished workpiece.

Single-convex (think Yunzi style) would print very easily. But if you did not infill 100% you would get oddly light stones (they'd feel cheap) and if you infill 100% it would take a very long time to print.

I think you're better off just going with the real deal, unless you're posting from the ISS or some other such remote location with a 3D printer but no postal service!

Maybe I am missing something here, but WHY would you want to involve 3D printing? That's something that we tend to associate with producing shapes that are difficult to easily/cheaply obtain starting with a mass of the material and removing what is not to be part of the finished object. But in the case of go stones, the shape is simple.

In other words, all you need to be able to do is to be able to make slabs of the desired mineral.

But please note that this is NOT necessarily so simple and just stating the "almost only" chemical composition deceptively unhelpful. Molluscs, for example, are able to form their shells in such a way that the resulting material has much more strength (especially tensile strength) than if you simply form a block of the chemicals from solution. Not just molluscs, of course. Our concrete may just be sand and pebbles bound together, but somehow isn't up to the strength of sandstone with embedded pebbles.

In other words, I am far less sure than you that current state of the art would allow us to produce a material closely resembling the clam shells in appearance and strength. Probably nobody will be working to tackle that problem until after they have solved how to set concrete as strong as the stone it is "almost like in the chemical sense".

Now as for the black stones, I wouldn't worry about us running out of suitable parent material any time soon.

In case you didn't know, 3D-printing is an additive manufacturing process whereby materials are added layer by layer until the desired product is reached. This is how nature 'makes' things. Trees add one ring each year, and clams add one layer to their shells each year.

Therefore, 3d-printing and the manufacture of clamshell go stones go hand-in-hand. With each printed layer, a line is formed on the surface of the stone, much like the growth lines on a clamshell. Moreover, both sides of the stone would have lines, as opposed to only one side, as is the case with Mexican clams.

One can print stones to match the lines on the most beautiful Yuki-grade Hyuga clamshell stones, each of which costs more than most people's monthly salaries!

Or, I could print them in block form and machine them down to desired shape and then further polish them to a mirror shine, just like how natural clamshell stones are made from shells. Basically, I'd only be printing the equivalent of a raw shell in a shape that can be easily worked into desired final shape.

I'm thinking this would work economically only for those who covet the legendary Hyuga clams in Yuki grade with desired thickness (9.5mm or up), which cost hundreds of U.S. Dollars PER STONE at a minimum.

Artificially made equivalent (using additive manufacturing process just as how nature makes the clamshells) costing a fraction might have a niche.

As someone who owns several 3d printers this does not sound simple at all. First of all calcium carbonate is not a typical print material, I haven't really seen/heard anyone having success with this material. Since it doesn't melt it could only be applied by adding small drops at a time which would mean a ton of post production making it smooth. I also don't know how one would minic the lines, how would you get the two different colors? I love 3D printing and there is a ton of uses for it but the simple shape of go stones and the need for 361 stones a set strongly suggests mass production is the way to go. I highly doubt people will pay top dollar for man made shell stones (just check the price difference between man made and natural diamonds)

Uhm, no.

Yes, Yuki grade stones are expensive, but not THAT expensive.

See here: Kiseido Go Equipment

And at Mr Kuroki’s store: Clamshell Go Stones BLUE LABEL, Clamshell Go Stones Premium grade, Legendary Hyuga Special Clam Go Stones

The most expensive set of stones I could find on the above pages costs 720,000 JP¥ which is US$ ~6,476 —> US$ 6476/180 = US$ ~36 per clamshell stone (if we neglect the shell stones)

_________________
“The only difference between me and a madman is that I’m not mad.” — Salvador Dali ★ Play a slooooow correspondence game with me on OGS?

You are correct that calcium carbonate is an atypical print material for consumer 3D printers; but there are specialized 3D printers for medical purposes that can handle the material. Maybe a few years down the road, their prices may become more mainstream.

The cost for 3D-printed clamshell stones will keep going down, but hand-crafted stones from natural clams will not.

The 'lines' on natural clamshells are not lines per se, they are actually layers. With each layer deposited by the 3D printer, a line is naturally formed. I'd imagine one can adjust the composition of the print material to make the 'lines' alternate in tone and shade to imitate natural clamshells.

And lastly, I never said I expected top dollars for 3D printed stones. I simply stated that a set of thick (10mm) Hyuga Yuki stones will set you back several hundred dollars per stone, which makes 3D-printed imitations more economical and possible more desirable due to its novelty factor alone.

Here, from your own source: http://shop.kurokigoishi.co.jp/en/item/739

And I've seen sets that cost $150,000 or more from Kuroki.

Of course, imitations can't beat the original. But when the Hyuga (not Mexican) clamshell stones of desired thickness are too expensive or simply unavailable to be obtained, then a 3D printed imitations with the right aesthetic qualities at a fraction of the price might be desirable to some.

And the novelty factor of 3D printed imitation clamshell stones is rather high.

by78, I’m all for your idea about 3D-printing stones and as said, I’d also put a little money in such a Kickstarter project. I just thought that the prices for clam stones that you mentioned were a bit over the top … maybe you took ¥ amounts for $$? But be it as it is, I like the idea.

But … maybe, since the material is a mineral, it would even be possible to grow it like people grow crystals? Maybe some electrochemical process? (But Calcium … dunno)

_________________
“The only difference between me and a madman is that I’m not mad.” — Salvador Dali ★ Play a slooooow correspondence game with me on OGS?

Yes, the prices for these Hyuga shells are definitely over the top. The set I linked costs around $38000.00! That's over $200.00 per stone. I understand that the supply is scarce, but it's really kind of ridiculous. Otherwise, this idea of mine wouldn't even be interesting at all.

OK, you were right and I was wrong: that one I missed, and I admit that I only counted the “available” sets.

_________________
“The only difference between me and a madman is that I’m not mad.” — Salvador Dali ★ Play a slooooow correspondence game with me on OGS?

No problem... You and I have been on the same page all along.

Wow. The price difference between Blossom Grade and Snow Grade is rather large. The Snow Grade can be >= 3x as expensive. (What is Blossom Grade? Never heard of that, to be honest. I do know Moon Grade. Maybe it's something exclusive to Kuroki.)

Blossom (Hana) grade is specific to rare Hyuga (Suwabute) clamshell stones. They're graded more on color than on grain since the grain is fine throughout (so much so it puts Mexican snow grade to shame). Snow grade will be mostly white with just a hint of orange for warmth while flower will have a very noticeable orange spotting (especially on the back side)

Suwabute grading
Snow --> Moon --> Blossom
Yuki --> Tsuki --> Hana

Moon (Tsuki) grade is the middle point between Snow (Yuki) and standard/practical (Jitsuyo). Mr. Kuroki used to manufacture moon grade stones (and still does for special Hyuga products), but I suspect he stopped due to the lack of source material. Moon grade has nice lines and is stronger than standard grade, but they're not as evenly spaced as Snow.

If you wanted moon grade you could send him a message and see if he can put together a set for you (If you do, please post the answer since I'm curious if that's still a possibility).

I once had the chance to hold some of his size 40 Snow Grade Suwabute stones. Those are about $2200 a piece. It would be cheaper to buy a full set in gold and silver

Though to be fair you could probably count the number of size 40 Hyuga sets ever produced on one hand.

At this point in time, I don't actually need anything, as I don't even know anyone else who plays Go in real life, and the nearest Go-club meets only on Wednesday as of 21:00. If a game in their competition takes 2-3 hours, I'm going to get home around 00:30 at the earliest, and that is too late. So, I only have a very cheap set with glass stones atm, to replay some games if I want to use a real board.

To be honest (and this may be heresy to say so in here), I think a lot of Go equipment is too far over the top. 720K yen (~5000+ euro's) for a set of stones? Even though the source material they are made of is almost depleted the world around? Over €1500 for the best bowls, and boards up to €50K?!

Well... if you put down $500 for a chess board, you'll have a top board, as good as the best tournament boards in use today. (It actually is a DGT electronic computer board, used on world championships. Dutch product, by the way :p) You could go up to €650 if you want the most expensive pieces for it.

I'm truly flabbergasted why so much noise is made over the types and gradings of boards and stones available to play Go. A good board with glass stones can be had for under €200; spending €5000 won't make you any stronger :p

I know, it's nice to have some luxury now and again, but I think that if I get something better at some point in time, that €500 or so for the stones, is the max.

Kuroki is currently selling 'Premium Blossom grade' stones. The website states that these are made from Mexican clams, not the rare Hyuga (Suwabute) variety. So Kuroki appeared to have re-purposed the term 'Blossom grade' and applied it to their Mexican clams, which brings up questions that Kuroki website doesn't answer:

1) How does 'Premium Blossom' differ from 'Premium Snow'? What are the selection criteria?

2) How does this 'Premium Blossom' grade compare with the discontinued 'Moon/Tsuki' grade? Is there any difference in their respective selection criteria?

Now, I wonder if this new 'Premium Blossom' grade is in fact the discontinued 'Moon/Tsuki' grade. If so, this is quite a steep price rise. I can get equivalent 'Moon/Tsuki' grade stones elsewhere for less than half the price.