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 Post subject: Chinese Kaya or Japanese Kaya
Post #1 Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:03 pm 
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I am thinking about buying a Kaya table Goban. I have the option of buying a one piece Chinese Kaya board (wood aged 20 years) of the same size as a composite Japanese Kaya board that I have been looking at. They will both cost about the same, what is the better choice?

Will the bonding on a composite board fail over a long period of time?

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Post #2 Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:49 pm 
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Carcosa wrote:
I am thinking about buying a Kaya table Goban. I have the option of buying a one piece Chinese Kaya board (wood aged 20 years) of the same size as a composite Japanese Kaya board that I have been looking at. They will both cost about the same, what is the better choice?

Will the bonding on a composite board fail over a long period of time?


From what I read, composite boards are actually longer lasting because they don't warp. Single piece boards are nicer but could warp and crack from temperature and humidity changes over a long time period.

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 Post subject: Re: Chinese Kaya or Japanese Kaya
Post #3 Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:19 pm 
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Carcosa wrote:
Will the bonding on a composite board fail over a long period of time?

I think this question can not be answered satisfactorily, especially not so from a distance, over the internet.
It depends.

There are several sides to the story of one piece versus multipiece.
Some argue that multipiece may be less likely to warp in comparison to a one piece, but then again, there is a higher risk of splitting. And I have seen one piece boards which were (in my view) aesthetically less appealing than multipiece. But the craftmanship (or lack of it!) put into a multipiece board can make a real difference.

I have more difficulty with a seller who advertizes a board being made of 'Chinese kaya'. Kaya is a tree species native of Japan and Korea, not of China. They probably mean spruce. That's an other kind of tree/wood (less expensive). Advertizing it as 'Chinese kaya' is foul sales talk to me. That said, spruce or Tibetan/Alaskan spruce can make good, longlasting and appealing boards though.

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 Post subject: Re: Chinese Kaya or Japanese Kaya
Post #4 Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:31 pm 
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Carcosa, in an other recent thread, you mentioned that you current YMI board will do.
Why bother looking for an other board, especially since it is in the same quality region (probably)?

If you want to upgrade, it will be of little use to upgrade to (non-existing) 'Chinese kaya'. That's what I think. Go for an original (Japanese) kaya board. The more so if you have slate and shell stones. But choose the board and seller carefully, and do not let price alone guide you, so be patient, save a little in the meantime, and shop around before you make an actual purchase. Good luck hunting.

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 Post subject: Re: Chinese Kaya or Japanese Kaya
Post #5 Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:35 pm 
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sybob wrote:

I have more difficulty with a seller who advertizes a board being made of 'Chinese kaya'. Kaya is a tree species native of Japan and Korea, not of China. They probably mean spruce. That's an other kind of tree/wood (less expensive). Advertizing it as 'Chinese kaya' is foul sales talk to me. That said, spruce or Tibetan/Alaskan spruce can make good, longlasting and appealing boards though.


This is not completely true. There are Chinese Kaya varieties that are also currently over harvested and now difficult to obtain. While it is true that some people advertise shin-kaya as kaya, it is not universally so. They are not the same as Japanese Kaya, but it is also not Shin-kaya.

http://www.maekawa-kayagoban.co.jp/ sells Chinese Kaya exclusively. He has a warehouse full of trees basically. I read a blog post by someone who visited his place. As far as I understand, he bought huge amounts of Chinese variety Kaya before it also became difficult to obtain. He ages the wood himself and builds boards. They are high quality boards.


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 Post subject: Re: Chinese Kaya or Japanese Kaya
Post #6 Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:19 pm 
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I own a very nice one-piece Chinese kaya table board which I bought a few years ago. I prefer one piece to multi-piece if it is thick enough, has a nice cut and is manufactured by a reputable Japanese craftsman. As kaya become rarer and rarer, the really nice looking one-piece boards seldom appear on the market and common multi-pieces seem to appear constructed with more pieces than before.

Check out this old thread for more info on multiple vs single piece. It will also have some posts about Chinese kaya vs Japanese kaya.
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=10562&p=169037

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 Post subject: Re: Chinese Kaya or Japanese Kaya
Post #7 Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:21 pm 
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sybob wrote:
Carcosa, in an other recent thread, you mentioned that you current YMI board will do.
Why bother looking for an other board, especially since it is in the same quality region (probably)?


I have been reading about the rarity of kaya wood and am afraid I will not be able to get one in 5 or 10 years, so I thought I should invest in one now as I am sure Igo will be a lifelong pursuit for me like chess.

Chinese Kaya wood is aseperate species of Kaya closely related to Japanese Kaya.


personally I think the Japanese board looks nicer so I will probably go for that. I am open to peoples advice though, and thank you all for responding.


Last edited by Carcosa on Sun Oct 30, 2016 9:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Chinese Kaya or Japanese Kaya
Post #8 Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:27 pm 
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Carcosa wrote:
sybob wrote:
Carcosa, in an other recent thread, you mentioned that you current YMI board will do.
Why bother looking for an other board, especially since it is in the same quality region (probably)?


I have been reading about the rarity of kaya wood and am afraid I will not be able to get one in 5 or 10 years, so I thought I should invest in one now as I am sure Igo will be a lifelong pursuit for me like chess.

Chinese Kaya wood is aseperate species of Kaya closely related to Japanese Kaya.


I did as well. I bought a Hyuga kaya one piece board. It is a little less than perfect in quality and look, but it smells great! The cost was similar to a Chinese Kaya board one piece, so I didn't feel like I spent too much. I also have a katsura floor board that was gifted to me and is quite worn out. I let the kids play on it. :)

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Post #9 Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 8:04 pm 
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Please note with the shipping cost from Japan these boards cost the same.

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 Post subject: Re: Chinese Kaya or Japanese Kaya
Post #10 Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:31 am 
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Carcosa wrote:
personally I think the Japanese board looks nicer so I will probably go for that.

Hi,
I look to both goban and my preference is for the Japanese one. My opinion mostly due to:
- I can see it has wonderful grain
- the chinese have some rather big defects
- personal feeling

btw, in consideration of Japanese wabi-sabi if you don't have shell and slate stones it will be heresy to play with such a nice board with glass or yunzi stones.
However, I am starting to think that we (or at least I) will never fully understand the Japanese aesthetic canon and its subtleties, so buy something that appeal your feelings and trust yourself...
and enjoy!

Please don't forget to post some picture for us.
Good life and good GO! :tmbup:
Galation

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 Post subject: Re: Chinese Kaya or Japanese Kaya
Post #11 Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:36 am 
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Carcosa wrote:
I have been reading about the rarity of kaya wood and am afraid I will not be able to get one in 5 or 10 years, so I thought I should invest in one now as I am sure Igo will be a lifelong pursuit for me like chess.


While I totally understand that you want to buy it and don't want to dissuade you, this argument is a bit like making a trip to the Maldives or Great Barrier Reef now before all the flight travel contributes enough to climate change that the Maldives and the Reef have been sunk under the sea and destroyed, respectively (which I also understand, but it is just a tiny bit questionable).

So buy it and enjoy it, *despite* the rarity of kaya wood.

(BTW, I really like the ivory keys of my very old piano ...)

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Post #12 Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:17 am 
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The CHinese board does not have straight grain, i.e. not masame, which would put it in a lower level of quality regqrdless of its being a single piece.

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Post #13 Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 9:06 am 
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Gotraskhalana wrote:
Carcosa wrote:
I have been reading about the rarity of kaya wood and am afraid I will not be able to get one in 5 or 10 years, so I thought I should invest in one now as I am sure Igo will be a lifelong pursuit for me like chess.


While I totally understand that you want to buy it and don't want to dissuade you, this argument is a bit like making a trip to the Maldives or Great Barrier Reef now before all the flight travel contributes enough to climate change that the Maldives and the Reef have been sunk under the sea and destroyed, respectively (which I also understand, but it is just a tiny bit questionable).

So buy it and enjoy it, *despite* the rarity of kaya wood.

(BTW, I really like the ivory keys of my very old piano ...)


The problem is not that the Kaya trees are disappearing, just that the really big ones that are around 400 or 500 years old have all been harvested. Nevertheless it is sad that all the big trees are gone, but it is good to know that they can grow back new ones, in time, because there are plenty of young Kaya trees out there.

Edit:
I did some more research and it appears that Japanese Kaya is a threatened species http://www.pfaf.org/user/plant.aspx?Lat ... a+nucifera
as is Chinese Kaya http://www.pfaf.org/user/Plant.aspx?Lat ... ya+grandis

better known here as the Nutmeg tree


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Post #14 Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:00 am 
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Carcosa wrote:
I did some more research and it appears that Japanese Kaya is a threatened species
Wikipedia wrote:
The tree is protected in Japan because of its scarcity due to past overcutting. Ancient kaya trees have to die before they can be harvested
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torreya_nucifera
Galation

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 Post subject: Re: Chinese Kaya or Japanese Kaya
Post #15 Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:54 am 
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This is the Goban I went with:

http://shop.kurokigoishi.co.jp/en/item/1050

I didn't feel bad since they are really not cutting own Japanese Kaya anymore.

Pictures to come

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Post #16 Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:05 am 
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Goban arrived today, that was fast!!!

Missed the postman will have to go pick it up shortly.

Pics to come!

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Post #17 Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:05 pm 
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Carcosa wrote:
Goban arrived today, that was fast!!!

Missed the postman will have to go pick it up shortly.

Pics to come!



Please be sure to let us know how the board sound when you place a stone on it. I wonder if table Kaya boards retain the sharp 'click' of a floor board. Thanks.

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Post #18 Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:43 pm 
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I read somewhere that a floor goban sometimes has a pyramid on the bottom put there to enhance the sound of the stone clicking and reverberating through the board. Unfortunately I have nothing to compare the sound to, although it does have a nice click.

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Post #19 Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:56 pm 
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The last several images on this link are pictures of my new goban with my shell and slate stones on it.

https://archive.org/details/GOKESHELLSLATESTONESSize32


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Post #20 Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:07 pm 
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Very nice!

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