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Does anybody recognise this makers mark?
https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=16202
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Author:  Tranq [ Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Does anybody recognise this makers mark?

Hi all,

I'm hoping for some help with the attached photos..

Apparently made in Korea, this board has a makers mark shown in the photo and I'm just wondering whether to pick it up. It has a couple of imperfections and is being sold at quite an attractive price given it is 4cm shin kaya(allegedly).

It looks nice and id like to know something of its heritage as the info from the vendor is rather vague. Is the maker identifiable and if so, do they make boards of quality?

All input welcome- thanks!



The blurb about the board as per the vendors website:

'A beautiful looking, excellent quality Go board that is approximately 4cm thick. Manufactured in Korea, the board is made from solid chunks of Shin Kaya (Alaskan Spruce), generally accepted as one of the very best woods for Go equipment.'

Attachment:
Go board 2.jpg
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Attachment:
Go board.jpg
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Author:  EdLee [ Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:30 am ]
Post subject: 

Hi Tranq,

御聖®
Quote:
the board is made from solid chunks of Shin Kaya (Alaskan Spruce), generally accepted as one of the very best woods for Go equipment.
My understanding is shinkaya is definitely not one of the "very best woods" for Go equipment
( and I have two Japanese shinkaya table boards that I like very much ).

The 御聖® marker on the front of the board, plus the lie about shinkaya being "one of the very best woods for Go equipment" are show stoppers for me. I'm also not crazy about the tone of the wood based on the photo. But YMMV. What price are they asking for ?

Author:  Tranq [ Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does anybody recognise this makers mark?

Thabks for the feedback Ed.
So possibly a Chinese manufacturer then?
The asking price is £30 with VAT and shipping included.

Author:  MikeKyle [ Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does anybody recognise this makers mark?

I have owned 2 boards branded like this. (I still don't know how we should read the characters)

I got my first from a British games distributor that has since stopped trading called pentangle games and puzzles. From memory it was close to £20 for the board (I bought it at the same time as some stones.)
I think when they were winding down the company sold a lot of their stock to the British go association but however it happened, I got a second, 2-peice peg-connected board from the BGA (more convenient for travelling)

This board looks like a nicer finish - better grain, maybe varnished more properly. Mine has the lines on the surface of the board etched in rather than just painted which personally I don't like.

I like a proper solid board, so if it's fairly cheap then it sounds great.

Author:  EdLee [ Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:24 pm ]
Post subject: 

Hi Tranq, Mike,

As Chinese characters were also used in the Korean language, it could be of Chinese or Korean origin. I'm guessing Korean, actually.

御聖 in pinyin is [ yù shèng ], both 4th tone.

For the Korean pronunciation maybe someone like Kirby can help. :)

Depending on your preference and usage, £30 including everything is quite nice ( say, for coffee shop use, at least ).
For reference, 15 years ago a new Japanese shinkaya 63mm thick table board was over £75.

With good care, this board should last for generations at least.

Author:  Kirby [ Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does anybody recognise this makers mark?

It's late so I can't think clearly to give an answer.

I did find references on google to 어성기, but I'm getting confused between 御聖棋 and 御城棋, since they both are showing up in what I briefly googled. The latter refers, I think, to the castle games (think Shusaku).

Some articles seemed to use the former, too, so I'm getting confused. I can probably answer better in the morning after sleep - almost 1am here.

Author:  EdLee [ Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:29 pm ]
Post subject: 

Hi Kirby,

[url=https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/御城碁]御城碁[/url]
Oshiro-go

( what's the limitation with the URL tag ? )

Author:  jlt [ Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does anybody recognise this makers mark?

@Ed:

御城碁


I entered url=https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%BE%A1%E5%9F%8E%E7%A2%81 - this is what I copy-pasted from my Google Chrome browser.

Author:  EdLee [ Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:07 am ]
Post subject: 

Hi jlt,

Thanks.

Feature request: expanded character set in the URL tag. :)

Author:  Tranq [ Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does anybody recognise this makers mark?

MikeKyle wrote:
I have owned 2 boards branded like this. (I still don't know how we should read the characters)

I got my first from a British games distributor that has since stopped trading called pentangle games and puzzles. From memory it was close to £20 for the board (I bought it at the same time as some stones.)
I think when they were winding down the company sold a lot of their stock to the British go association but however it happened, I got a second, 2-peice peg-connected board from the BGA (more convenient for travelling)

This board looks like a nicer finish - better grain, maybe varnished more properly. Mine has the lines on the surface of the board etched in rather than just painted which personally I don't like.

I like a proper solid board, so if it's fairly cheap then it sounds great.


Good to know Mike, thanks.
Looking around the various online retailers in the UK, nice boards from Korea / Japan are hard to come buy without spending rather more than I should. This seems like a good compromise for a solid board, so I've gone for it.
Now for some stones. Any recommendations for stones that would suit the board for under £30/40? I'd like to avoid plastic but am open to persuasion! Choices in the UK seem limited when on such a tight budget, but perhaps I'm not looking in the right places..

Thanks, chaps for your input!

Author:  Kirby [ Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does anybody recognise this makers mark?

Kirby wrote:
It's late so I can't think clearly to give an answer.

I did find references on google to 어성기, but I'm getting confused between 御聖棋 and 御城棋, since they both are showing up in what I briefly googled. The latter refers, I think, to the castle games (think Shusaku).

Some articles seemed to use the former, too, so I'm getting confused. I can probably answer better in the morning after sleep - almost 1am here.


So to be more specific, some blog I found (not that official of a source) is talking about various go history here:
https://news.joins.com/article/2982935

In that article, they are talking about a guy named 安井算哲 that played tengen a long time ago in the 御聖棋 (어성기) games. Based on the first character, it suggests that these are some sort of games for the king - maybe some sort of royal games. His family name would be on the line in playing there. He had his reasons for thinking that playing tengen would be good, but he lost.

Anyway, I'm still not sure about the distinction between 御聖棋 and 御城棋 - they both seem like some sort of royal games, but the latter is what I see used for the castle games that Shusaku played. Maybe there are some other sort of royal games that were played back then.

Also, on page 2 of this pdf:
http://hkga.org.hk/AMagazine/2014/2014-9.pdf
the text suggests a similarity between the two:
Quote:
秀策在御城碁(御聖棋)中留下了19戰全勝的驚人紀錄,特別是在持黑棋時每次都是順利地大獲全勝。1862
年,流行病起,秀策心地善良,好心回鄉探望,因此染病,沒多久就去世,年僅33歲英年早逝。秀策因而被
譽為「為御城碁而生的棋士」。


So my thought is that 御聖棋 is at least some sort of royal game.

I'll keep researching.

Author:  Galation [ Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does anybody recognise this makers mark?

Hi,
about the stones, with your budget and trying to save on shipping, I would recommend you to refer to the British Go association.
They have an agreement with a shop that offer something that seems ok with your requests:
https://hoylesoxford.com/collections/go-the-strategy-board-game/products/glass-go-stones
and a page of advice with a list of British sellers (maybe you have a shop nearby):
https://britgo.org/books/setsadvice

Galation

Author:  John Fairbairn [ Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does anybody recognise this makers mark?

Quote:
they are talking about a guy named 安井算哲 that played tengen a long time ago in the 御聖棋 (어성기) games. Based on the first character, it suggests that these are some sort of games for the king - maybe some sort of royal games.

Anyway, I'm still not sure about the distinction between 御聖棋 and 御城棋


The reference is to Yasui Santetsu who played in the 御城棋 (Chinese for Castle Games, but they were imperial not royal as they were played at the Japanese shogun's behest).

御聖棋 is best regarded as a mistake. It can be a homonym in Korean but not in Japanese or Chinese. But 御聖 was used in old Chinese for the Son of Heaven, so this cheap board (which the characters suggest is either Korean or Taiwanese) is just being branded upwards as "Emperor". Makes a change from "Double Happiness", I suppose. It has nothing to do with Santetsu, castle games or the price of fish.

As Ed has indicated, putting the stamp on the top surface suggests no actual go player was involved in the making of this board.

Author:  Kirby [ Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does anybody recognise this makers mark?

John Fairbairn wrote:
Quote:
they are talking about a guy named 安井算哲 that played tengen a long time ago in the 御聖棋 (어성기) games. Based on the first character, it suggests that these are some sort of games for the king - maybe some sort of royal games.

Anyway, I'm still not sure about the distinction between 御聖棋 and 御城棋


The reference is to Yasui Santetsu who played in the 御城棋 (Chinese for Castle Games, but they were imperial not royal as they were played at the Japanese shogun's behest).

御聖棋 is best regarded as a mistake. It can be a homonym in Korean but not in Japanese or Chinese. But 御聖 was used in old Chinese for the Son of Heaven, so this cheap board (which the characters suggest is either Korean or Taiwanese) is just being branded upwards as "Emperor". Makes a change from "Double Happiness", I suppose. It has nothing to do with Santetsu, castle games or the price of fish.

As Ed has indicated, putting the stamp on the top surface suggests no actual go player was involved in the making of this board.


Cool, cool. Makes sense. Thanks for this clarification.

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