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 Post subject: Re: Seattle Go Center sues Nihon Ki-in Japan
Post #181 Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:58 pm 
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And that makes Maeda what, Portuguese?

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 Post subject: Re: Seattle Go Center sues Nihon Ki-in Japan
Post #182 Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:02 pm 
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jts wrote:
And that makes Maeda what, Portuguese?


Kansai Kiin.

He came to the Seattle Go Center for a couple lectures before heading to to the congress.

I'm pretty sure lack of Nihon Kiin professionals has nothing to do with the SGC.

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 Post subject: Re: Seattle Go Center sues Nihon Ki-in Japan
Post #183 Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:10 pm 
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oren wrote:
jts wrote:
And that makes Maeda what, Portuguese?


Kansai Kiin.

He came to the Seattle Go Center for a couple lectures before heading to to the congress.

I'm pretty sure lack of Nihon Kiin professionals has nothing to do with the SGC.

Ah ok. I misunderstood Ed's point.

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 Post subject: Re: Seattle Go Center sues Nihon Ki-in Japan
Post #184 Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:52 pm 
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I fear that having the 2013 Congress in Seattle may be viewed by the Kiin as an insult.

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 Post subject: Re: Seattle Go Center sues Nihon Ki-in Japan
Post #185 Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:07 am 
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If that's an insult, what was closing the Seattle Go Centre? :)

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 Post subject: Re: Seattle Go Center sues Nihon Ki-in Japan
Post #186 Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:02 pm 
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
I fear that having the 2013 Congress in Seattle may be viewed by the Kiin as an insult.

Silly nonsense.


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 Post subject: Re: Seattle Go Center sues Nihon Ki-in Japan
Post #187 Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:37 pm 
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Hsiang wrote:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
I fear that having the 2013 Congress in Seattle may be viewed by the Kiin as an insult.

Silly nonsense.


I'd prefer facts or at least a well argued opinion backing up a comment like that. :grumpy:

On the surface, there are official pronouncements of love and brotherhood between the Kiin and the SGC. But the Kiin may feel that they were publicly humiliated by the result. As Ed Lee suggests, they may be withholding their participation in Congress because of it.

The SGC filed suit. In Japan, the number of lawsuits per capita is at least two orders of magnitude less than here in the US. It is something that the Japanese do not do except under the most pressing circumstances. I'm not sure how they interpret the filing of a lawsuit, but I'm sure that it is not the same way that an American would.

If the Kiin has lost face in the dispute, choosing Seattle may be viewed as calling attention to the fact, and therefore insulting.

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 Post subject: Re: Seattle Go Center sues Nihon Ki-in Japan
Post #188 Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:11 pm 
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So, I looked at the 2011 figures, where we had 2 Kansai Kiin pros, 3 Nihon Kiin pros, 2 Korean pros, 5 Chinese pros, and 10 pros from the US/Canada/Europe. This year the comparable numbers are 1/0/2/1/9. I think the real question is whether the Seattle Go imbroglio scandalized the Chinese pros - I'm not sure what else could have kept four of them away from North Carolina.

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 Post subject: Re: Seattle Go Center sues Nihon Ki-in Japan
Post #189 Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:14 pm 
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I really think that this talk of the Nihon Ki-in boycotting the AGA congress or being insulted by Seattle hosting the 2013 USGC is baseless supposition by people who are not directly involved on either side of the issue. I have no information proving that these theories false, but at the same time I have seen nothing to indicate that they might be true. I would appreciate it if the discussion could be kept to known facts about the issue and not wild speculation.


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 Post subject: Re: Seattle Go Center sues Nihon Ki-in Japan
Post #190 Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:18 pm 
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I don't see how the lawsuit could have affected Chinese players - is there a reason they'd know (or care) about it?

I don't think Japanese players would be influenced either, except if normally the notification for registration goes out from the Ki-in.

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 Post subject: Re: Seattle Go Center sues Nihon Ki-in Japan
Post #191 Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:21 pm 
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jts wrote:
I think the real question is whether the Seattle Go imbroglio scandalized the Chinese pros - I'm not sure what else could have kept four of them away from North Carolina.

The east coast is an extra 3000 miles of air travel on top of an already long trip from the East Asia. Perhaps money played a role? Wasn't the last one on the west coast?

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 Post subject: Re: Seattle Go Center sues Nihon Ki-in Japan
Post #192 Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:23 pm 
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jts wrote:
So, I looked at the 2011 figures, where we had 2 Kansai Kiin pros, 3 Nihon Kiin pros, 2 Korean pros, 5 Chinese pros, and 10 pros from the US/Canada/Europe. This year the comparable numbers are 1/0/2/1/9. I think the real question is whether the Seattle Go imbroglio scandalized the Chinese pros - I'm not sure what else could have kept four of them away from North Carolina.

The numbers depend on how you count. Officially, we have two pros from China each year. In 2012, one of them had trouble with visa and could not make it. So, it is Hillary's fault. ^^ But, no, it had nothing to do with Seattle.

As for Nihon Kiin, there were reasons why they withdrew their pros from the 2012 Congress and indeed it had to do with SGC. But all problems are cleared now and we may safely expect normal exchange to resume in 2013.


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Post #193 Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:26 pm 
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Hsiang wrote:
As for Nihon Kiin, there were reasons why they withdrew their pros from the 2012 Congress and indeed it had to do with SGC. But all problems are cleared now and we may safely expect normal exchange to resume in 2013.

Could you elaborate on this? How do you come by your information?


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 Post subject: Re: Seattle Go Center sues Nihon Ki-in Japan
Post #194 Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:29 pm 
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Redbeard wrote:
Hsiang wrote:
As for Nihon Kiin, there were reasons why they withdrew their pros from the 2012 Congress and indeed it had to do with SGC. But all problems are cleared now and we may safely expect normal exchange to resume in 2013.

Could you elaborate on this? How do you come by your information?


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 Post subject: Re: Seattle Go Center sues Nihon Ki-in Japan
Post #195 Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:53 pm 
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illluck wrote:
Redbeard wrote:
Hsiang wrote:
As for Nihon Kiin, there were reasons why they withdrew their pros from the 2012 Congress and indeed it had to do with SGC. But all problems are cleared now and we may safely expect normal exchange to resume in 2013.

Could you elaborate on this? How do you come by your information?


http://www.usgo.org/who-aga

VP - International Thomas Hsiang

Yes, but that does not explain who he talked to about the issue or the specific reason the Nihon Ki-in withdrew their pros from the 2012 Congress. If anyone is going to make such a statement, AGA officer or not, they should be able follow it up with details.


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 Post subject: Re: Seattle Go Center sues Nihon Ki-in Japan
Post #196 Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:25 pm 
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Hsiang wrote:
jts wrote:
So, I looked at the 2011 figures, where we had 2 Kansai Kiin pros, 3 Nihon Kiin pros, 2 Korean pros, 5 Chinese pros, and 10 pros from the US/Canada/Europe. This year the comparable numbers are 1/0/2/1/9. I think the real question is whether the Seattle Go imbroglio scandalized the Chinese pros - I'm not sure what else could have kept four of them away from North Carolina.

The numbers depend on how you count. Officially, we have two pros from China each year. In 2012, one of them had trouble with visa and could not make it. So, it is Hillary's fault. ^^ But, no, it had nothing to do with Seattle.

As for Nihon Kiin, there were reasons why they withdrew their pros from the 2012 Congress and indeed it had to do with SGC. But all problems are cleared now and we may safely expect normal exchange to resume in 2013.


Don't want to tell you guys that I told you so. But, I told you so. :P

Thanks to sgc for damaging relations. I hope you really appreciate and are grateful for your purpose built game hall, and use it to the fullest extent. As every other club in the usa must use a bookstore, cafe or private residence.

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 Post subject: Re: Seattle Go Center sues Nihon Ki-in Japan
Post #197 Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:01 pm 
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badukJr wrote:
Hsiang wrote:
jts wrote:
So, I looked at the 2011 figures, where we had 2 Kansai Kiin pros, 3 Nihon Kiin pros, 2 Korean pros, 5 Chinese pros, and 10 pros from the US/Canada/Europe. This year the comparable numbers are 1/0/2/1/9. I think the real question is whether the Seattle Go imbroglio scandalized the Chinese pros - I'm not sure what else could have kept four of them away from North Carolina.

The numbers depend on how you count. Officially, we have two pros from China each year. In 2012, one of them had trouble with visa and could not make it. So, it is Hillary's fault. ^^ But, no, it had nothing to do with Seattle.

As for Nihon Kiin, there were reasons why they withdrew their pros from the 2012 Congress and indeed it had to do with SGC. But all problems are cleared now and we may safely expect normal exchange to resume in 2013.


Don't want to tell you guys that I told you so. But, I told you so. :P

Thanks to sgc for damaging relations. I hope you really appreciate and are grateful for your purpose built game hall, and use it to the fullest extent. As every other club in the usa must use a bookstore, cafe or private residence.


Really? you're going to start up with this again?

Edited to be less inflammatory:
The SGC is the little guy in this, and as the records showed, they acted in good faith. I really don't see why the Nihon Kiin is receiving your sympathies. Seems like Stockholm syndrome.

EDIT: And as has been already stated, numerous times, they've been paying for everything, what exactly are they supposed to be grateful for?

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Last edited by shapenaji on Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Seattle Go Center sues Nihon Ki-in Japan
Post #198 Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:02 pm 
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badukJr wrote:

Don't want to tell you guys that I told you so. But, I told you so. :P

Thanks to sgc for damaging relations. I hope you really appreciate and are grateful for your purpose built game hall, and use it to the fullest extent. As every other club in the usa must use a bookstore, cafe or private residence.


What to you mean told you so? the post you cite as evidence is, as far as we know wild speculation.


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 Post subject: Re: Seattle Go Center sues Nihon Ki-in Japan
Post #199 Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:17 pm 
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Even if it were the case where the Nihon Kiin is being vindictive in not sending pros to congress, I'd still rather have a Seattle Go Center than a couple of Nihon Kiin pros here for a week.


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 Post subject: Re: Seattle Go Center sues Nihon Ki-in Japan
Post #200 Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:35 pm 
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I haven't seen this posted anywhere else and I wanted to bring this thread to a conclusion for posterity. This e-mail was sent to all SGC members on Friday Dec. 21 2012.

---
Subject: [Seattle Go Center] New Lease and Management Agreement with Nihon Ki-in
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2012 10:37:20 -0800


Seattle Go Center Records Formalized Lease and Management Agreement with the Nihon Ki-in

The Board of Directors of the Seattle Go Center is pleased to announce that
we have signed a new agreement with the Nihon Ki-in, providing for our
continued management and occupancy of the Iwamoto Building in support of our
mission to promote the game of Go and encourage cultural exchange in the
spirit of Iwamoto-sensei. The lease term runs through 2016, with the Go
Center having the option to renew through 2021. The official documents were
recorded in Seattle this morning, Dec. 21, 2012. To a large extent, this new
agreement simply formalizes the understanding the two organizations have
always had, and ensures that misunderstandings will not occur in the future.

On behalf of the entire Seattle Go Center community, the Directors express
heart-felt thanks to the Nihon Ki-in, and particularly to President Norio
Wada. This agreement, which not only formally extends the relationship
between our two organizations, but reaffirms our ties to one another, was
only made possible by the vision and leadership the Nihon Ki-in provided
throughout this process.

The Seattle Go Center remains deeply grateful to the Nihon Ki-in for its
support, generosity, and guidance since the Seattle Go Center's inception in
1994. We will strive to justify their faith in us, now and far into the
future.

For more information, please contact the Manager of the Go Center, Brian
Allen, at http://www,seattlegocenter.org.
---

This agreement officially ends the misunderstanding between the two organizations and all legal action is being withdrawn. This is a much better outcome that I anticipated and I am grateful to everyone on both sides of the argument who had the maturity to listen to each other and resolve this issue. Now, let's get back to the game, Ok?


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