Upcoming Elections - Feng Yun appears in the line up

[ez4u]

I'm gonna throw something out there for a point of interest:

When voting for items on the board that relate to strong players, professional program, and the like she must abstain her vote on the topic at hand when the board votes. This is a conflict of interest and is described in the AGA bylaws.

For the record, as nobody will know what vash3g is talking about

Section 11. Conflict of Interest.

In order to avoid a conflict of interest or the appearance thereof, anyone in a policy or decision making position in the AGA shall recuse himself or herself from any discussion where his or her personal... interests may conflict with the interests of the AGA...

I am not an AGA member so probably do not not belong in this thread at all, but I could not resist. How in the world does anyone take this statement seriously in an organization of and for those with a personal interest in Go? I assume that those writing about Feng Yun and Jie Li equally believe that other members need to recuse themselves on 'weak player' issues (Oh, unless they agree with 'the interests of the AGA' of course)? I'd like to think, 'only in America', but I don't actually have such an optimistic view of humanity as a whole.

[daniel_the_smith]

This is true by all accounts I've heard and was reported in the E-Journal. From what I've been told by those in the know this is a semi-sensitive issue between some AGA personnel. I believe they are keeping it private at this time because they dont want to cause a bigger stir and let it be known that the issue was taken care of.

Which issue of th E-Journal reported this?

I found a link in my email:

http://www.usgo.org/news/2012/02/%E2%80 ... d-meeting/

At the following board meeting, I asked what happened to the report that we said we were going to make, and the general feeling was that the issue had blown over and didn't need to be brought back up (more detail may or may not be in the minutes). I didn't push hard, now I'm wishing I had. That's my own mistake; next time I'll make a bigger fuss.

My understanding (and this is just me, not an official statement of any sort, and I'm saying this from memory without going back through my email) is that the loss was primarily due to there being many more cancelations than expected, and a few more comps than were budgeted. I also understand that adjustments have been made so as not to repeat this in the coming years.

[fantans]

I see nothing wrong in Feng Yun's letter. I actually agree with most of what she says and laud her courage to speak out. Indeed, AGA is very opaque, and nobody knows how a decision is made. We should let people who really care about Go to run it, be they are professional players who depend on Go for life or enthusiastic local organizers who keep live Go alive.

[hyperpape]

I see nothing wrong in Feng Yun's letter. I actually agree with most of what she says and laud her courage to speak out. Indeed, AGA is very opaque, and nobody knows how a decision is made. We should let people who really care about Go to run it, be they are professional players who depend on Go for life or enthusiastic local organizers who keep live Go alive.

If the ability to spot problems with the AGA and complain about them was what made a good board member, we'd have dozens on the L19 boards.

[Javaness2]

I am not an AGA member so probably do not not belong in this thread at all, but I could not resist. How in the world does anyone take this statement seriously in an organization of and for those with a personal interest in Go? I assume that those writing about Feng Yun and Jie Li equally believe that other members need to recuse themselves on 'weak player' issues (Oh, unless they agree with 'the interests of the AGA' of course)? I'd like to think, 'only in America', but I don't actually have such an optimistic view of humanity as a whole.

I did wonder about this too. It seems to be open to quite some interpretation. For instance, is voting for a Congress to be held near where you live, a conflict of interest?

[illluck]

If the ability to spot problems with the AGA and complain about them was what made a good board member, we'd have dozens on the L19 boards.

I think that ability is neither necessary nor sufficient, but having at least 1 member with it will definitely be beneficial.

[hyperpape]

Of course you're a board member because you're interested in some sense. You care about go, you would like to be able to play go, you are a participant in the AGA, and so on.

But I'm incredulous that anyone would fail to see the difference between those interests and Feng Yun or Jie Li voting on the proposed tap. If you want to argue that there's no interesting way to draw a line in general, that might be reasonable. But in the cases mentioned so far, there's a big difference.

P.S. How are congress locations decided? I'm blanking on that.

[oren]

I did wonder about this too. It seems to be open to quite some interpretation. For instance, is voting for a Congress to be held near where you live, a conflict of interest?

I was wondering if it was a conflict voting to get a congress far away from where you live.

[illluck]

But I'm incredulous that anyone would fail to see the difference between those interests and Feng Yun or Jie Li voting on the proposed tap. If you want to argue that there's no interesting way to draw a line in general, that might be reasonable. But in the cases mentioned so far, there's a big difference.

To be honest, I personally don't agree with it. The strong players are also part of the total players base and some representation makes sense. If you are talking about them being directly affected, the weaker players are also affected as they benefit from the tap - should no one be allowed to vote?

Disclosure: I'm not a member of either the AGA or the CGA, and don't really have enough information to judge. Still, I don't fully agree with disallowing strong player votes for taps.

[hyperpape]

I think that ability is neither necessary nor sufficient, but having at least 1 member with it will definitely be beneficial.

Jie Li's presence on the board followed just a few years after a very public dispute in which he accused the President and Chairman of the Board of acting secretively and against AGA policy. So certainly we have seen critics before.

To be perfectly clear, this is not a criticism of Jie Li. It's just noting one very visible instance where a current board member is someone who's a critic.

[hyperpape]

The weaker player benefits in a small way, indirectly (for instance, I cannot exactly figure out how the tap has *any* effect on me personally). For Jie Li or Feng Yun, it might be several hundred dollars.

[illluck]

Then wouldn't it make more sense for those who are more impacted by it to have a say?

Unrelated: My limited understanding is that the underlying support for the tap is that the AGA helps with travel costs and such? Is there any way to have players "opt out" of travel cost support and also the tap? I'm just wondering if my understanding is correct.

[jts]

Of course you're a board member because you're interested in some sense. You care about go, you would like to be able to play go, you are a participant in the AGA, and so on.

But I'm incredulous that anyone would fail to see the difference between those interests and Feng Yun or Jie Li voting on the proposed tap. If you want to argue that there's no interesting way to draw a line in general, that might be reasonable. But in the cases mentioned so far, there's a big difference.

P.S. How are congress locations decided? I'm blanking on that.

Yes... while I have great respect for ez4u and javaness, wtf? In government, corporations, and non-profits it's standard procedure to separate personal interest from broader interests, fiduciary duties, and so on, and recuse oneself from conflicts of interest. I.e., I have an interest in efficient trash collection in my neighborhood, and you have a 5% interest in your nephew's waste disposal company, but these are totally different kinds of interest.

Things could be different in Japan and Ireland, of course... very different, if I remember The Bad Sleep Well accurately...

[Javaness2]

I wasn't saying that (perceived) conflicts of interests shouldn't be avoided. Just echoing the idea that the whole perception thing could get a bit mirky.

[daniel_the_smith]

If the ability to spot problems with the AGA and complain about them was what made a good board member, we'd have dozens on the L19 boards.

I think that ability is neither necessary nor sufficient, but having at least 1 member with it will definitely be beneficial.

The board currently has several members with this capability. I wouldn't say it was lacking in this area.