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 Post subject: Re: The KGS is dead, long live the KGS ?
Post #81 Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:50 am 
Judan

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daal wrote:
Kirby wrote:

The idea of having a hero mark is similar; you can give preference to the guys who go out of their way to help weaker players.

Maybe the difference is, you don't want to play against the guy that didn't play *any* weaker players. I don't think these guys should be called out, because I don't feel they are doing anything wrong.

Really? Doesn't it seem just a little bit selfish? We can agree that playing stronger players is a good way to improve, but if we take advantage of this ourselves and never offer the opportunity to anyone else aren't we a bit like a cat jumping on a lap like he deserves to be petted and never offering to pet you back?

I also like the hero idea. Maybe we should label players as either cats or dogs. :mrgreen:


You'll have to be more clear on where we disagree. I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying, so I should probably avoid adding to the pot.

As you can see with my dialog with Fenring, it's easy to argue past one another about points that both parties agree with.

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 Post subject: Re: The KGS is dead, long live the KGS ?
Post #82 Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:56 am 
Oza
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I am arguing against the idea that someone who only plays stronger players is not doing anything wrong. I think they are acting in a selfish manner - not granting others what they take for themselves. Granted, most of us are playing to improve and have fun and not to serve a community, but that's why I think it's not bad for the server to take responsibility to encourage people to put in a fair share of what they take out.

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 Post subject: Re: The KGS is dead, long live the KGS ?
Post #83 Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:11 am 
Judan

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daal, I pretty much agree. I'd just add that "fair share" is somewhat hard to define well. You might say someone should play equally against stronger and weaker players, but with different personalities, cultures, game experiences, etc., I think it's difficult to formulate a universal concept of fairness with a system like this.

And besides, why does someone need to be "fair" anyway? Most just want to play go.

We see from other servers that there's no problem at all without the tilde. People play games actively without it, and nobody seems to complain about it. I've never seen someone say, "Dangit, I just played a guy that doesn't play weaker players! I shouldn't have given him the time of day!"

Oh, the horror...

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 Post subject: Re: The KGS is dead, long live the KGS ?
Post #84 Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:06 pm 
Dies in gote

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when you say "~ is another reason to decline a game" AFTER i explain how ~ increase the number of games played, is just out of topic, because it show you ignore all my arguments.
Its like fox new saying "collusion is not a crime", which is literraly true,but just because collusion can cover different crimes.

So i repeat differently:

~ is another reason to decline a game, but it give more reason too accept games from the weaker player who have no ~.
The fact is as people wanna play more with stronger than weaker, a stronger who play with weaker,will always have the choice,so when he accept, indirectly he always decline offer from someone else.
So in resume: you just remplace random reason by good reason(i mean useful,not good as moral) of decline, but you dont have more decline, you maximize number of games played, and maximize the opportunity for all users to play against stronger players.
So, ~players have more decline.
But no ~ players have less decline, and more strongers players ready to play with them.


If you try other servers, you will see a big use of automatch, and a big number of decline.
At my lvl, i have less decline from 1k stronger opponent on KGS than IGS for example.
Tygem i only use automatch, i can't compare.

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 Post subject: Re: The KGS is dead, long live the KGS ?
Post #85 Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:25 pm 
Judan

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Fenring, I don't really disagree tha much with the statements you've said here. What I disagree with is your claim that the quoted statement from earlier is a lie, when I was merely stating an obvious observation.

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 Post subject: Re: The KGS is dead, long live the KGS ?
Post #86 Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:27 am 
Dies in gote

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if you agree with what i say,you agree your statement is true, but have in this discussion same sens than say:"i'm against redlight because they stop car" and you say that AFTER someone argue for the advantages of redlight. It show you dont listen other's arguments.
Feeling over logic.

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 Post subject: Re: The KGS is dead, long live the KGS ?
Post #87 Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:42 am 
Judan

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I think my argument has been logical. I don't think you completely get what I am saying, but I don't know how to express it differently.

You are free to disagree. I assume that you probably do :-)

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