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 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #41 Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 6:35 am 
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Nyanjilla wrote:
*sigh*

I do so want this to work, but....

It seems that someone (the same person as last time? can't remember) got booted for swearing, so then tried to log back in through gouniverse with the same username, infecting that IP address with his block. Gouniverse then changed IP addresses a few times, but people who had tried logging in through the previous (blocked) IP address and were also blocked, tried logging in with the new IP address, which infected that one. And so on.

I've released the block on anyone who tried to log in through gouniverse recently (including KOCMOHABT), but I can't release the block on older ones, such as that of the original foulmouth, so this might continue for a while.

I shall leave a stiff message to that person, but....


Anyway thank you :bow: , because at least now i can watch games from USGC, since i can't use orignial KGS-client because of closed ports issue.

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 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #42 Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:28 am 
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Hey guys i need your ideas.

I'm working on the editor of demos. Now if you are doing any changes no one will see them, it's your own game tree. But if you are the owner or the current editor of the demonstration then all users must see all of your changes. So client needs to show two different game trees, and there is should be a way for user to switch between them. I'm not sure how it should looks like.

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 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #43 Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:55 am 
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Check how OGS does it. Users in the same node as the owner follow whatever the owner does. For users in a different place in the tree, nodes that the owner adds are added to the user's tree but the user stays where they are. There is a button that allows a user to go to where the owner is (but the button is not very obvious in the OGS gui).

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 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #44 Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:41 pm 
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Version 1.2.0

- Added contextual menu for list of games in the user info window.
There are standard fields:
InPlay games:
Observe
Finished games:
Download to disk
Load in room
Load privately in room
View - a new field, now you can simply view any game instead of loading in room or saving to disk.

Image


- Since from now user can load any game in a room for reviewing it, implemented editing in a demonstration mode:
Switching current node
Adding moves
Adding/removing stones
Adding/removing labels (squares, triangles, x marks, circles, text and numeric labels)
Sharing control of the demo (through context menu in players list and a new button - see below)

- Added a new button for working with game tree.
Back to game - return to current node of the game/demo
Remove own changes - reset game tree to original variant
Return control - if you are owner of current game room or you have a control and you want to return it to owner.
Image


- Implemented a rank graph. It's almost the same as in original client but with curved angles. Also if you will move mouse over a graph you will see a hint with precise value of rank for selected day (also you can move mouse over a bottom line of graph to find a day).

Image


- Implemented an updates for user info window: if game had been finished or a new one had been started, you will see this changes in the list of games automatically (just like in original client :) ). Also statistics of games will be updated.
- Added "email" and "registered on" fields in the user info window. If "email" field is present it will be regular html "mailto" link.

- Reworked context menu behaviour. Now when context menu is showing up selection in list view won't disappear.
- Removing nodes is now forbidden.
- Fixed bug with reconnecting after unexpected logout.

PS: Next version will be hot, because i'll add a possibility to play :tmbup:


This post by KOCMOHABT was liked by 6 people: eyecatcher, ez4u, Go_Japan, sparky314, wineandgolover, yoyoma
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 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #45 Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:35 pm 
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KOCMOHABT wrote:
PS: Next version will be hot, because i'll add a possibility to play :tmbup:


:clap:


KOCMOHABT wrote:
Also if you will move mouse over a graph you will see a hint with precise value of rank for selected day


Cool. :cool:

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 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #46 Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:34 pm 
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Version 1.2.1

I've decided to release a small update before.

- Added an animated logo when you are connecting to the server. (Hope you will like it)
- The splitter between chat and list of games is draggable now.
- Fixed bug with <gmt> time (used in headers of rooms). Now it shows time with your local time settings.
- Position of splitter between chat and list of games, type of the list of games and last opened chat room now are storing in a local storage, so when you will reconnect to the server this parameters would be the same as they were be last time.
- Fixed serveral minor bugs.


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 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #47 Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:04 am 
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Guys, i need your help again.

I'm working on a challenges right now. Is there any good algorithm how to detect by time settings is it blitz/normal/slow.

For example 0 main time + 10 secs per move is obviously a blitz, but 20 min main time + 10 secs per move not a blitz at all, it's more likely normal.

There are three different time systems on KGS: absolute, byo yomi and canadian.

Any ideas? Thanks for any replies.

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 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #48 Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:08 am 
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OGS does that automatically, maybe the algorithm they use is described somewhere? At the very least you can try several combinations and see how they classify them.

By the way, don't forget to take the board size into consideration. OGS considers 10 minutes absolute to be blitz, but for me that's perfectly normal in 9x9.

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 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #49 Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:43 am 
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uPWarrior wrote:
OGS does that automatically, maybe the algorithm they use is described somewhere? At the very least you can try several combinations and see how they classify them.

By the way, don't forget to take the board size into consideration. OGS considers 10 minutes absolute to be blitz, but for me that's perfectly normal in 9x9.


I know about board size. Of course there must be used average count of the moves, and this parameter depends on the board size. Didn't find anything about OGS algorithm.

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Post #50 Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:08 am 
Judan
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Quote:
20 min main time + 10 secs per move not a blitz at all
That's blitz for some people.

Since KGS's rating doesn't distinguish between different time settings, it means blitz/normal/slow is entirely a subjective and personal preference.

Why not let the user decide what is blitz/normal/slow for themselves ?

Example:

Dialog box: Use (a) main time or (b) byōyomi average to determine blitz/normal/slow. Must pick either (a) or (b).

If (a):
Blitz: < M minutes main time.
Slow: > N minutes main time.
Normal: otherwise.

If (b):
Blitz: < ( X secs / move, average )
Slow: > ( Z secs / move, average )
Normal: otherwise.

Let the user define ( M, N ) or ( X, Z ) ?
My preference: (b) Canadian byoyomi.
Blitz: < ( 90 secs / move, average )
Slow: > ( 300 secs / move, average )
Normal: ( 30 mins. / 20 moves )

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Post #51 Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:17 am 
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EdLee wrote:
Quote:
20 min main time + 10 secs per move not a blitz at all
That's blitz for some people.

Since KGS's rating doesn't distinguish between different time settings, it means blitz/normal/slow is entirely a subjective and personal preference.

Why not let the user decide what is blitz/normal/slow for themselves ?

Example:
Blitz = Less than X seconds per move ( average )
Slow = More than Z seconds per move ( average )
Normal = otherwise.

Let the user define X and Z ?


It's a good idea to let user decide such parameters, but the question is still open, since X maintime + Y sec per move = Z seconds per move, how to achive Z by X and Y.

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 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #52 Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:25 am 
Gosei
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What's the point in a KGS client?

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 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #53 Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:28 am 
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ez4u wrote:
What's the point in a KGS client?

1. No need java anymore
2. No need any installations at all, only browser is needed.
3. Cross-platform
4. You can use it even if your CGoban-ports are closed (like in my situation)
5. Many new features that already done.
6. It will be common client not only for KGS (as minimum OGS and IGS will be supported too)
7. New features that will be coming, going to do something special, you will see it in next summer.

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 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #54 Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:42 am 
Gosei
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Sorry, I meant what is the point of distinguishing blitz etc. if KGS does not use such distinctions?

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 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #55 Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:39 am 
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ez4u wrote:
Sorry, I meant what is the point of distinguishing blitz etc. if KGS does not use such distinctions?


Dunno, maybe as an additional feature. Perhaps it is not so important, since you will be able to see time preferences before opening a certain challenge.
List of challenges will be something like this

Image


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 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #56 Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:07 am 
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That's good to show open challenges' time settings in the grid so you can see all at once (like CGoban-h), instead of one-at-a-time mouseover (like CGoban). Btw KGS automatch does have a named time system of :
    - Blitz: 1m+3*10s
    - Fast: 10m+5*20s
    - Medium: 25m+5*30s

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 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #57 Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:43 pm 
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finally you've released it! was looking forward to it for so long, keep it up!

p.s. may be mirror icon so it will be like new born moon?


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Post #58 Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:10 am 
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KOCMOHABT wrote:
since X maintime + Y sec per move = Z seconds per move, how to achive Z by X and Y.


My proposal for Z would be max(X/125, Y/number of moves per byo-yomi), which handles both regular and Canadian byo-yomi. It's not perfect, but estimating about 125 moves per player leads to a reasonable result for most cases.

Based on how the language is used in KGS, I would say a Z of 10 seconds or less is blitz, 20 seconds or less is fast, and 30 seconds or less is medium.

Edited to add: though I agree that this is not an important part of the user interface is you're clearly showing times on the challenge screen. That's a big improvement over the CGoban interface!

Edited again: Maybe this doesn't quite work... that would put one hour main time with no byo yomi as 28.8 seconds per move, and few on KGS would call that fast. Perhaps if you tweak the number of moves per player, you can find a reasonable result. 100 seems to work better.

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 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #59 Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:55 pm 
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KOCMOHABT wrote:
ez4u wrote:
What's the point in a KGS client?

1. No need java anymore
2. No need any installations at all, only browser is needed.
3. Cross-platform
4. You can use it even if your CGoban-ports are closed (like in my situation)
5. Many new features that already done.
6. It will be common client not only for KGS (as minimum OGS and IGS will be supported too)
7. New features that will be coming, going to do something special, you will see it in next summer.


You can probably reverse-engineer the terms that appear in the KGS: New Game dialog in CGoban. As you tweak the time settings it will say Time (Blitz) and if you dial it really low (Ultra Blitz). But there are odd cutoffs if you explore it.

In byoyomi all three of main time, byoyomi time and byoyomi periods count. For example, 0+5x0:08 is blitz, but 0+1x0:08 is ultra blitz. 0+5x0:07 is ultra. Adding just 2 seconds of main time to the 0+1x0:08 to make it 0:02+1x0:08 is enough to make ultra blitz into blitz.

While it is possible to copy these, since the server doesn't care they are just a way of providing feedback to the users. One time I tried to figure this out but decided it was foolish. Everyone has their own idea, so why not let users provide their own cutoffs in your settings. (Edit: I see EdLee suggested that already.) I would provide a curve dragging control that allows adjustment of the multidimensional boundary that separates blitz from non-blitz games and then color code the game list but that is just me. :)

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 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #60 Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:02 pm 
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Calvin Clark wrote:
...
You can probably reverse-engineer the terms that appear in the KGS: New Game dialog in CGoban. As you tweak the time settings it will say Time (Blitz) and if you dial it really low (Ultra Blitz). But there are odd cutoffs if you explore it.

In byoyomi all three of main time, byoyomi time and byoyomi periods count. For example, 0+5x0:08 is blitz, but 0+1x0:08 is ultra blitz. 0+5x0:07 is ultra. Adding just 2 seconds of main time to the 0+1x0:08 to make it 0:02+1x0:08 is enough to make ultra blitz into blitz.

While it is possible to copy these, since the server doesn't care they are just a way of providing feedback to the users. One time I tried to figure this out but decided it was foolish. Everyone has their own idea, so why not let users provide their own cutoffs in your settings. (Edit: I see EdLee suggested that already.) I would provide a curve dragging control that allows adjustment of the multidimensional boundary that separates blitz from non-blitz games and then color code the game list but that is just me. :)

The only one that means something to the server is "ultra blitz" I believe. Games with too short a time limit can not be rated games. I am not sure that it is all "ultra blitz" games or a subset. In the past wms had a page linked to the help file with some research he had done on the effect of very short time limits. Basically at about 7 seconds per move or less the rating system became unreliable as a predictor of the game results. (Unfortunately that page seems to be gone these days.) As a result, the server checks and rejects a rated game with too short time limits. Unfortunately the rejection message just says you need more time, not how much more.
Attachment:
kgs warning.png
kgs warning.png [ 69.04 KiB | Viewed 915 times ]

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