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 Post subject: KGS Ranking
Post #1 Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:22 am 
Lives in sente

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I've defended the KGS rating system in the past, and in general I still like it, but I just lost a hard won 3k rank on a day I didn't play when my most recent 3 ranked games were all wins. (Admittedly, those wins were against weak opponents/bots.) I'm sure it makes sense mathematically and it won't matter in the long run - I'm confident that I'll get the rank back quickly - but it's frustrating to lose a stone without playing, especially since I was very much enjoying my even games against 3k opponents. (I had 2 wins and 2 losses against 2k or 3k opponents; my overall record at 3k was 7 wins and 5 losses.)

This is a trivial matter and won't upset me for long, but I wanted to vent to a group of people who might understand my frustration. :)

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 Post subject: Re: KGS Ranking
Post #2 Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:23 pm 
Lives with ko
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I vividly recall one of my Go books by a Japanese author stating plainly that "to stand still is to fall behind", but I cannot for the life of me find the passage now within my library.

Regardless, the sentiment still holds. ;-) Frustrating to be sure, but perhaps reasonable depending on the ranking methodology.

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 Post subject: Re: KGS Ranking
Post #3 Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:49 pm 
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apologies if this is a bit off topic of the original thread, but I'm also puzzled by a kgs ranking issue: one of my sons accounts can no longer play ranked games and his rank has been removed. I can't find any reference in any of the kgs material. Is this a known outcome for some reason?

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 Post subject: Re: KGS Ranking
Post #4 Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:10 pm 
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jgr314 wrote:
apologies if this is a bit off topic of the original thread, but I'm also puzzled by a kgs ranking issue: one of my sons accounts can no longer play ranked games and his rank has been removed. I can't find any reference in any of the kgs material. Is this a known outcome for some reason?
Perhaps he accidentally turned off his rank? See the section "Special Marks in Ranks" here: https://www.gokgs.com/help/rank.html#specialmarks

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 Post subject: Re: KGS Ranking
Post #5 Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:16 pm 
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Drew wrote:
I vividly recall one of my Go books by a Japanese author stating plainly that "to stand still is to fall behind", but I cannot for the life of me find the passage now within my library.


There is a very similar one in Kageyama's Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go.

Toshiro Kageyama wrote:
Professionals [spend time studying everyday] unquestioningly. Even a gemstone has to be polished. 'A man is always moving either forward or backward,' says Kano, 9-dan. 'He never stands still. This should be every go player's motto, and he should keep piling effort on top of effort no matter what his age. He can be confident of always making progress.'

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 Post subject: Re: KGS Ranking
Post #6 Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:35 pm 
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I agree with the sentiment that you're moving forward or falling behind... but this was only 24 hours without a game on the server. That's a little extreme. ;-)

The issue in this case is the way KGS uses a whole history rating system, so your rating can move a bit based on how your opponents are doing. When you're really solidly in the middle of a rank that usually not noticeable, but I was cruising along near the bottom of a 3k rank so it dropped me below the threshold.

However, as I expected, I got my rank back quickly and got a few insurance wins to make sure it sticks. Despite that little dip, I actually feel really confident that I am playing at a 3k level on the server, so I'm not really worried about the short term ups and downs.


This post by jeromie was liked by 2 people: BlindGroup, Kirby
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 Post subject: Re: KGS Ranking
Post #7 Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:59 pm 
Judan

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jeromie wrote:
However, as I expected, I got my rank back quickly and got a few insurance wins to make sure it sticks. Despite that little dip, I actually feel really confident that I am playing at a 3k level on the server, so I'm not really worried about the short term ups and downs.


Good for you. :salute:

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What have I learned from this game that I'll be able to use in my own game if the opportunity presents itself?

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 Post subject: Re: KGS Ranking
Post #8 Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:14 pm 
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jgr314 wrote:
apologies if this is a bit off topic of the original thread, but I'm also puzzled by a kgs ranking issue: one of my sons accounts can no longer play ranked games and his rank has been removed. I can't find any reference in any of the kgs material. Is this a known outcome for some reason?

2 possibility:
-in his profile he choose the option hide the rank
-Games who count for rank are games from last 6 months(officially,maybe its less),so if no games were played during this time, its normal he have no rank,he just have to play ranked games again.

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 Post subject: Re: KGS Ranking
Post #9 Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:03 pm 
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Fenring wrote:
jgr314 wrote:
apologies if this is a bit off topic of the original thread, but I'm also puzzled by a kgs ranking issue: one of my sons accounts can no longer play ranked games and his rank has been removed. I can't find any reference in any of the kgs material. Is this a known outcome for some reason?

2 possibility:
-in his profile he choose the option hide the rank
-Games who count for rank are games from last 6 months(officially,maybe its less),so if no games were played during this time, its normal he have no rank,he just have to play ranked games again.

Just to try to clarify, let me add this:

1) The rank calculation system calculates a "rank reliability factor", and/or a margin of error.

2) As games age, their results have less "weight" in the rank calculations.

As a result, if you stop playing ranked games, your rank becomes less reliable: The reliability factor changes to indicate your calculated rank is less accurate. If you continue to avoid playing ranked games, after some time, a "?" appears in your rank. If you continue to avoid ranked games, your rank changes to "[?]", just as if you are new to KGS.

It is also possible to "turn off" or "hide" your rank. Using the KGS client, click "User" on the menu bar, and then "Edit Personal Information." Click the check box marked "Rank" to turn your rank off or turn it on.

If your rank is off, and you are not able to turn it on, it is likely your rank was disabled by an admin. In that case, you should discuss your situation with an admin.

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