I am just curious as to what type of information they can see. I know they can see how many rooms you own, but can they see the multiple names of handles or your IP address? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm..

If you use the same email address for all your handles, which KGS surprisingly allows, then they could look it up like that. Doing it via ip address is theoretically possible, but not always accurate, since whole groups could be behind the same address (which is why bans can sometimes be so punitive).

Admins can see your IP address, and also your email address (even if you mark it as private). Although they still know you want it private; they have to click on a private email address to make it appear.

Senior Admins can also see your recent chats, but any looks into people's chats is logged and is *only* meant to be used in cases of "he called me bad names!" "I did not!" type disputes.

When you say 'chat', you mean private chat between two players?

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求而不得
舍而不能

Yes. Anything you type in any chat box on KGS is potentially seen.

Hopefully admins are being responsible here. Looking over the log of chat snoops, they are all labelled with something like "email complaint" or "<userName>: Swearing volition in private chat after escape", which indicates that the snoops are for good reasons. But all the same, if you have something private to say that you absolutely do not want admins to see, DO NOT SAY IT ON KGS.

Hopefully, right. I'm not looking to accuse anyone so I'll leave out names, but I once asked an admin why repeated offenders (specifically trolls) (i.e. users who get banned often for similar offenses) don't get perma-banned. Their reply was something like "is that why you have so many user accounts?" My question was never answered, but information was looked up on me... why?

I think this is actually quite disturbing, as this is not widely known among users. Personally, I feel that this information should be disseminated, because I had no prior knowledge of this. I finally found it in one tiny sliver of a "privacy policy," in the KGS help website. Otherwise, I did not know they can see conversations or your multiple accounts OR even say something as unprofessional as "Is that why you have so many users?"

I suppose I will just have to tread KGS more carefully now, especially what I say to friends. I also recall once, a couple years ago, someone asked me to make a room, as he already owned one. So I asked a KGS admin to make the room permanent, and he/she asked, "Are you already owner of a room?" And I candidly answered, "No." Or I was not aware of any room I owned. Apparently, I DID own a room, and I didn't even know! So he/she said, "You already have a room..etc, can't make this one for you."

I found it a little odd, because this was something I did not know admins can see.
Not a big deal, but I was just curious as to what else they can see but don't mention.

Anyway, I still love KGS very much as the community is very friendly. I wonder why we don't have an option to just 'disable' or 'delete' an account...

I'm not sure how doing either would reduce your sense of unease, but deleting an account is impractical because your games are also other people's games. As for disabling, accounts expire after 6 months of disuse.

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Patience, grasshopper.

To be fair, the privacy policy is part of the Terms of Service, which is the first page a user will be directed to if they have a question about KGS policies (also a page that has a dedicated link in the help menu of the client). If you are a new user to KGS, the first line you see (After "Welcome to KGS!") in the chat room welcome message is the link to the KGS policy FAQ, which has the first bullet point refer users to the ToS. Short of actively announcing it on a regular basis (which would probably be irritating to regular users), it is hard to make the information more accessible.

As far as being able to see who owns a room, actually room owners are public knowledge. Any user (even a guest) can look at the rooms list and see who the room owner of any room is.

It's pretty obvious why admins should be able to see whether you own a room, right? That's essentially public information.

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Occupy Babel!

it is scary that admin can see your private chat

not really... you're a visitor in someone else's home (its a privately owned server)

I see it more like wiretapping a hotel room.

You are using a server for free. It is closer to an arena than a hotel room; even if you open a separate chat window.

When you're online assume everything you write is logged/copied somewhere and you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

If I stopped charging for the hotel room, would it make it ok to wiretap it? This isn't a good analogy, but the fact that I'm not paying for use of the server (even though I did pay for KGS+) doesn't change anything about privacy issues. I know that KGS explicitly states that there is no expectation of privacy, but it still really annoys me that all the admins have this power, given that some of them are people that I would not associate with in real life (this last bit is a euphemism for many choice insults that would violate L19 TOS). I'd prefer if stuff like this were more difficult for KGS staff to access, as to prevent abuse.

If it's helpful to you, I'm happy to explain the perspective of one of the admins who can read the private messages and discussions in private rooms.

Only senior admins can read private messages and chat in private rooms.

Senior admins only look at private chats or conversations in private rooms in response to complaints. Provided that either you or the person you're speaking with aren't subject to a complaint from another player, there's no reason for the admins to look at your private discussions. Although theoretically senior admins can view any discussion anywhere on KGS, in practice the vast majority of discussions on KGS are of no interest to anyone other than the participants themselves.

That said, if you truly want to have a discussion about something very important and personal, then I suggest that you have the conversation on Skype or another instant messenger. When I want to have a personal discussion with a friend, that's what I do.

Finally, I can't think of a circumstance where any admin would have any real interest in reading private chats, provided that one of the people involved isn't the subject of a complaint. KGS management investigates complaints about admin behaviour precisely to ensure that players can have confidence that admins don't abuse their positions.

Thanks for these comments. I do not have much of a problem with this policy.

If I am being abused by someone, I should have the right to contact an admin, and they should able to see what I am complaining about in my private chat with someone. I have NO problem at all with this.

Now, if a third party complains about someone, or the admin starts rooting around my private chats with others, or the person I am complaining about's (could that possibly be a correct possessive?) private chats with others, that is more intrusive. I am still ok with it - but this is my "not much of a problem" area. Again, if the admin is simply trying to establish that the person complained about by a "victim" is engaging in a pattern of behavior - that seems reasonable.

But I do worry if the complaint came from a potentially malicious third party to any of the chats - just to cause trouble or harass someone. I would hope that this is unlikely, but I can see it happening under certain circumstances.

Ultimately, I completely understand that the admins have a tough job, and we are getting a wonderful free service. I want KGS to be a pleasant place for me, and a safe place for children - and I do believe that is the goal and the aim of the admins on KGS.

isnt it true that apart from private chats also private games can be opened? This could be abused because private lessons from pros can be opened and viewed. Do you log these kinds of stuff too and do they get checked?

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admin of the ASR league and KGS admin

If a private game is in open, it can be entered (again to investigate a complaint). This is not logged, however it's fairly easy to see if it is being abused as the userlist in the game will show that the admin has entered. If it is a finished/archived private game, it cannot be opened.

For how many hours/days is chat a) logged and b) visible to (senior) admins?