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Offline Violence
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #581 Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:17 pm 
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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #582 Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:02 pm 
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Wow I did something right for once... :D

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Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #583 Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:36 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 130 W64 B57
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O W |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If we don't play here, black can, then I think we can't prevent them from connecting out and killing us.

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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #584 Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:10 am 
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Trigger assuming this gets approved:

T13 will be my next move, by approval or by change as necessary.

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #585 Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:19 am 
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I approve.
Still looking for a way to make a ko threat into a winning semeai up top.

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Offline shapenaji
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #586 Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:18 am 
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Approved

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Offline Gresil
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #587 Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:22 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 131 W64 B57
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O B |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Any other move than T13 here will lead to W P15. The following sequence (up to :b5: taking the ko) looks forced to me, but what do I know?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 131 W64 B57
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O 1 |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X 3 |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Violence
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #588 Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:13 pm 
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Daniel's trigger resolves, he approves, I approve.
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #589 Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:53 pm 
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Trigger:
If Terr plays T9, I approve

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Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #590 Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:30 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 132 W65 B57
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O C |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X W |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline shapenaji
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #591 Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:39 pm 
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Triggered, I also approve... let the ko begin!

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Offline Gresil
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #592 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:03 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 133 W65 B57
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O C |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X B |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #593 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:13 am 
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Approved, naturally...

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Offline Violence
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #594 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:48 am 
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Approved.
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Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #595 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:45 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm134 Move 134 W65 B58
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O 2 |
$$ | . O O O 3 . . . . . . . . . O O X X C |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X B |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Pardon the trigger, but in a ko, some things are obvious.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm134 Move 134 W65 B58
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . b . O X e . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X a . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O X |
$$ | . . O X . c . . O X X O X X X X O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O 2 |
$$ | . O O O d . . . . . . . . . O O X X C |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X B |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Okay, we can't win this ko fight. This basically makes the whole game look... iffy. We can either use or threats to try to live on top (a, b, or e), or we can sacrifice all of the top+right, consider that we have thickness in the whole rest of the board, and try to put it to work ASAP. I think I'm going to go with 'd', on the latter plan. 'd' accomplishes similar things to 'c', threatening to kill the big group above and setting adrift the stones below. If white captures the ko (seems like they will), I intend to push and cut. I'll also look at just atari-ing after the ko capture, though.

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #596 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:55 am 
Judan
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Move approved. Must think about trigger.

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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #597 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:27 am 
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I'm fine with 135. I think we all are... >.<

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Offline shapenaji
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #598 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:17 am 
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Wait, Joaz, did you approve 136?
Chew's move at 136 is a very big threat, but if we play it, we have no choice but to kill, better to live the top. It threatens the life of the black top group.

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #599 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:51 pm 
Judan
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shapenaji wrote:
Wait, Joaz, did you approve 136?


No. I didn't disapprove either.

Hmmm...the rules are not clear here. Are we waiting on me or the white team?
I gotta see if there is something better for a ko threat. N17 or G7 may be better.

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #600 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:33 pm 
Judan
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I'm assuming that all white players will want to take the ko.

We can make a ko threat to save our group:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . 4 . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X 2 . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X 6 O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X 5 O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X C C C C C X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X C 3 X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X C C C |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X C 1 |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...which continues like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . 2 O 1 5 4 6 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . 7 3 O . O X 8 . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...and - I didn't see this earlier - it may end in sente!

If they tenuki:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . O O X X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . X X O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X 2 3 . X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X 4 X O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It is a flower-viewing ko for us. I haven't read all variations, but we can live, and as best I can tell we live with sente.

So..


I don't approve of the trigger.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm134 Move 134 W65 B60
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X 3 . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O 2 |
$$ | . O O O C . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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