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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #81 Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:54 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #82 Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:56 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #83 Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:15 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Move 16... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-7(7) W-10(4)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . 4 . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Move 16... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-7(7) W-10(4)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . 4 . . . 6 . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't like 7, though.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 I wonder if these will be the next moves.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 8 6 . . 4 . 7 . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #84 Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:20 am 
Gosei

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Move 16... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-7(7) W-9(10)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . C . . 4 . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Playing C3 just feels too passive. Now is the time to play to separate the black stones, in my opinion.

I just hope I'm not a) throwing Phelan into too deep of waters (I don't think so, but we'll see), or; b) ruining Violence's plans. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #85 Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:37 pm 
Oza
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If Violence approves Marcus' change, I'm leaning towards B8. The conventional response for W at that point is to hane and make a tiny little mini-group on the edge, which would, imho, end up looking like a very premature invasion, with W's corner group still very unsettled. When I say "conventional", though, I mean "conventional for invading a three-space extension on the third line with no friendly stones nearby." The 4-4 stone may enable W to safely keep us low.

I'm also considering E6. If E6, C3, D9, we have gote but I think B can be satisfied locally - it looks like B and W started to play out a pincer joseki and then W took tenuki in the middle of the joseki, letting B add a stone to an urgent area. (Or maybe it just looks overconcentrated.) If E6, E8 then... I don't know. It looks like fun! :D I think I'd start with C3, treating C10 lightly. If W adds a move to neutralize C10, B plays H3 and the game starts fo' reals. If W plays J3, then ... I think E10, J8 first, then I think C14 for a B's base becomes fairly urgent.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #86 Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:38 am 
Oza
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bump - violence, it's to you.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #87 Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:47 am 
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Man... don't waste corrections on moves that aren't such a big deal...

The key here is to get more corrections than the opponent so that you can change more vital moves...

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #88 Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:12 pm 
Oza
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Move 16... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-7(6) W-9(10)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 3 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My reasoning hasn't really changed. If c3, I follow up with d9; if e8, c3.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #89 Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:25 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #90 Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:58 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #91 Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:23 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Move 16... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-7(6) W-9(10)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 3 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm not sure I understand :w6:. I thought we were too weak to invade it at this point, but it doesn't seem to be what Marcus thinks. I see no good way of continuing...

This allows Black to connect under:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Connect under
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 6 . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 3 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This strengthens black:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Not good
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 9 . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 3 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Not good either
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 , 9 . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 3 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think my move will have to be changed...but I don't see what Marcus' intention is.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #92 Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:42 pm 
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Could you guys only label or mark the latest move? Its rather annoying have to look at the highest number to see the move has just been made.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #93 Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:25 pm 
Oza
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Aphelion wrote:
Could you guys only label or mark the latest move? Its rather annoying have to look at the highest number to see the move has just been made.


Do other people have the same preference?

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #94 Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:28 pm 
Gosei
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Yes, except in the obvious exception case of triggers, in which every move needs labelling.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #95 Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:49 am 
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I agree with Aphelion - it's very confusing seeing all those numbers on one diagram.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #96 Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:23 am 
Oza
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It's no skin off my back. This is with Phelan's most recent move, Marcus to approve:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Move 16... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-7(6) W-9(10)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #97 Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:44 am 
Gosei

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Not Approved.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Move 16... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-7(6) W-8(10)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . C . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black needs to be kept separated. Running fight ... begin!

Man, now I regret changing the previous move ... it doesn't look like Phelan is familiar with this fight ... I apologize to Violence, as he's most likely tearing his hair out watching our number of changes drop ... :(

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #98 Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:48 am 
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KGS: Aphelion02
I think in general, Big Brothers need to realize that its a better to accept an slightly inferior move that the little Brother understands the follow up to than a good move which doesn't communicate a clear message to Little Brother. The role of corrections is frequently to decisively change the tone of a game or as a safety parachute (or killing blow, as the case may be)

It can be a bit infuriating to new Big Brothers - who wants to sit by passively in their own game? The urge to be actively involved can be very strong.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #99 Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:09 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #100 Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:54 pm 
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Are you kidding me?

So since I can't communicate with Marcus directly, the only way I can stop him from correcting more moves is to make him start second guessing himself. I will do that by immediately making him doubt his own judgment, hopefully making his changes much more conservative.


Rejected.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Move 16... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-7(6) W-6(10)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . C . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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