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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #61 Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:46 pm 
Gosei
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[go]$$Wcm10 Move 10... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-7(10) W-10(6)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 1 , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I picked this one because I didn't like the cap:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 The cap I didn't like
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 2 , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . b . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm expecting Black to play on either a or b. Both corner approaches that coordinate well with their other stones.

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Good Go = Shape.
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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #62 Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:25 pm 
Gosei

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #63 Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:57 pm 
Oza
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[go]$$Wcm10 Move 10... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-7(10) W-10(6)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . c e . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . d . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a b . . . . . , . . . . 1 , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Basic intuition about the opening suggests a or b; it's the emptiest place on the board. The logic of our position in the upper left suggests c, d, or e, to put ourselves in the position to build a loose moyo. I'll try not to think too hard about this one.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #64 Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:01 pm 
Oza
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While we wait for Violence: other moves I'm considering are somewhere around n17/o17 and k3. Ideally what I'd like is to approach the upper left from somewhere around f17 and be left with influence facing right along the top; that would be an extremely efficient use of our stones. However, for precisely that reason W would almost certainly pincer us to prevent that. G17 is harder to pincer, but really wimpy in that it doesn't threaten the corner at all; if I'm not going to threaten the corner I might as well play somewhere around O17. And I have no idea how high-approach, pincer josekis go.

So do we want a nice boxy moyo on the right? We do, but it's gote and seems slightly overconcentrated to me. I like the look of the board after Bc10, Wo17 more than after Bo17, Wc10.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #65 Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:59 pm 
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Jts:
You are already thinking too hard

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #66 Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:49 pm 
Oza
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Aphelion wrote:
Jts:
You are already thinking too hard

My stock in trade! :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #67 Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:53 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #68 Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:31 am 
Oza
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[go]$$Wcm10 Move 11... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-7(9) W-10(6)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . . . . , . . . . 1 , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Image

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #69 Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:49 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #70 Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:52 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #71 Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:19 pm 
Gosei
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[go]$$Wcm10 Move 12... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-7(9) W-10(5)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . . . . , . . . . 1 , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I've been thinking about this move since jts posted his, and this was the first that came to me. It neutralizes black's possible moyo at the top. Approaching seems too open to attack, so something like this is better.
An alternative I considered was playing the same at the bottom, but the top is worth more.

Something I used to do when I was a beginner was to approach the C10 stone immediately, as if it was an invasion of my territory. Now it seems that letting the rest of the board develop before approaching is a better strategy. I'm not sure about this, so feel free to correct me.

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Good Go = Shape.
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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #72 Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:43 pm 
Gosei

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I don't see anything wrong with this idea. We broke up the right side, Black breaks up the left side, the top and bottom are the two widest spaces left. Of those, the top is slightly wider. In addition, this move supports an approach to the 4-4 in the upper right. The lower right is an enclosure that's not easily approached from the bottom side, so I prefer playing the top instead.

I might play K16 instead as a personal preference, but it's not worth a correction point (even if Black seems to be throwing theirs away. ;) )

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #73 Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:15 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #74 Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:52 pm 
Oza
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[go]$$Wcm10 Move 13... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-7(8) W-10(5)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . . . . , . . . . 1 , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Move 12... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-7(9) W-10(5)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 . . a . . . . . . |
$$ | . c . O . 9 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . . . . , . . . . 1 , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . 5 . . b . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm aiming for this. After W18, I don't think W will respond to B19 at c, so I'll be looking at a and b as big points. If W refuses to treat his corners as urgent, the double approaches are big.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #75 Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:09 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #76 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:58 pm 
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But I really hope he doesn't play any of the points he marked.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #77 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:18 pm 
Gosei
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[go]$$Wcm10 Move 14... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-7(8) W-10(4)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . . . . , . . . . 1 , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I was tempted to pincer but it seemed too aggressive. C4 also looks interesting, but it leaves a weak point at F3. So I'll just extend, and go low because of black's low position in the lower right.
I'm trying to play simple in this game.

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Good Go = Shape.
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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #78 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:26 pm 
Gosei

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Although I was torn on this ... maybe jumping in is a better move? It's decisions like that that usually get me into trouble in my own games. However, little brother is playing a solid move, and Black's going to have to fix that defect sometime ... meantime, we're continue to buy points.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #79 Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:26 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3
Post #80 Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:48 am 
Oza
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[go]$$Wcm10 Move 15... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-7(7) W-10(4)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . . . . , . . . . 1 , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I considered approaching the upper left first; that's the sequence you try to get away with in handicap games, albeit with the middle stone high. But because of our weaknesses at a and b, I think that if W ignores our follow-up is better here... in the second of these diagrams it looks to me like both B and W have a wobbly group, but W doesn't have any eyes yet.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Move 14... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-7(8) W-10(4)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . . . . , . . . . 1 , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Move 14... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-7(8) W-10(4)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . . . . , . . . . 1 , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . 5 . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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