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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4
Post #21 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:18 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move 1 - B:9(3) W:9(2)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think an approach to their komoku stone is essential at this point (I remember what you were telling me about the size of each edge, and this edge has size 2.5, so is very important. At a guess, san-san probably gives a size of around 0.5 to each adjacent edge? It doesn't look very important to approach.)

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4
Post #22 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:21 am 
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That would have been my move

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4
Post #23 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:29 am 
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[go]$$Bcm1 Move 1 - B:9(3) W:9(2)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Simba: we should have a convention of when to increment the counters. You seem to increment yours when you post and I seem to increment mine only after approval from my big brother. It does not really matter which way we go but it's confusing me slightly.
Let's start some fun. If I just attach underneath and play out the normal joseki then we would start seeing forms of a black moyo. It's not that that aspect scares me, but moyos require more middle game skills than fighting games (at least that’s my impression). If we turn this game into a huge mess than the resulting territorys are going to be smaller and our 33 and 34 are going to have a larger impact on the final score compared to their 44's

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4
Post #24 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:39 am 
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Mnemonic wrote:
If we turn this game into a huge mess than the resulting territorys are going to be smaller and our 33 and 34 are going to have a larger impact on the final score compared to their 44's


@Mnemonic:

Hmm, in my experience (which is admittedly fairly limited), turning a game into a "big mess" means that it basically comes down to which side's reading is better, and something big dies on one side or the other. OK, with a dan player on each side to step in when required, I guess this is less likely to happen here (although I'm sure even high dan players misread complicated fights often enough) - but still, in a "big mess" type game then the side whose "little brother" is better able to handle it will at least pick up more points from corrections. I'd have thought that, as you seem to be playing a more territorial game while black is playing an influence-based one, taking cash and keeping things simple would be more in keeping with your strategy and offer a better chance of winning the game (even if it would be less fun ;-)).

Not a criticism of your move, at all (I'm at least 10 stones too weak to seriously be able to do that anyway). I always find pincers both fun and slightly scary (for both sides), particularly in 3-4 joseki. *gets some popcorn and sits back to watch the fireworks* :)

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4
Post #25 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:33 am 
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(rules question: I suspect that Violence is reading my every post. That also includes post made by observers directed at me, right?)
@robinz (+violence?)
"taking cash and keeping things simple" would result in an easy opening and a moyo midgame. I suspect I'm better in the opening and try to use that to my advantage by making it long and complicated. Moyo based midgames require invasions and reductions and other complicated stuff that would fall under my "direction of play" bullet in my last post. They would require a change by my Big Brother if I screw them up and would probably be easy to answer by the opposing teams younger Brother. This "Big Picture Midgame" is probably my weakest area and supposedly Simbas strongest so I suspect that Violence will have to change more moves compared to topazg. If I can minimize the risk of Midgame requiring a lot of "Big Picture" thinking it would be in our favor (I think :-? )

The messy midgame I'm aiming for does still have "Big Picture" stuff but it will have a lot more infighting and contact battles were I'm on the same level as Simba and a change by one Big Brother will likely require a counter change by the other.

I don’t know if this is logical or not, but I’m trying to play to my (perceived!) strengths and their (perceived!) weaknesses

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4
Post #26 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:24 am 
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I only read your comments directed at me.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4
Post #27 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:17 pm 
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[go]$$Bcm1 Move 1 - B:9(3) W:9(3)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 7 . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Looked at D13 but I don't have a satisfactory answer to white playing C14 in reply. C15 seems a bit too solid/slow to separate the groups - B15 looks much better. If white peeps, I just connect and white has two weak groups, one of which will come under severe attack. I know that C17 is joseki but someone showed me when I first started playing that it gets really complicated. This variation looks a lot calmer and I'm not going to die horribly in the corner in this variation (heheh, famous last words...) :P . Also if white ends up getting an extension on the left, I have some nice yose to reduce his territory since I'm on the 2nd line now.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4
Post #28 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:24 pm 
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Split and fight!

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4
Post #29 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:49 pm 
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[go]$$Bcm1 Move 1 - B:9(4) W:9(3)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . 8 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Sadly, this is very straight forward. We get development on both sides where black get center access and sente (other variation include us tenukiing before finishing the left side or just concentrating on the upper side) I was hoping for some complicated variation like the 33 attachment (After my horrendous misplay in the emerus game I've been studying this pincer)

btw, I thought Big Brothers can/were reading the smaller brothers posts?

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"Cutting? Killing? Poking out eyes? What the hell are you playing?"

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4
Post #30 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:31 pm 
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Yes, I'm reading the ones you post with your move, but not anything else.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4
Post #31 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:06 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move 1 - B:9(4) W:9(3)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This move fits in with the 'play on the line of symmetry' proverb. If I try a keima, I could well get cut and boxed in, not keen on that. I could one point jump and attach, but I shouldn't attach to the pincer stone since it's weak, and if I attach to F15, it feels like I end up a bit heavy after the probable G15-F14 exchange. I quite like this diagonal move since it gives me the natural extension J17 from my hoshi stone which aims to play at the weakness white created at the top by playing a high move 8. And if white chooses to play another move on that side, his pincer stone is in trouble...!

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4
Post #32 Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:44 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4
Post #33 Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:19 am 
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[go]$$Bcm1 Move 10 - B:9(4) W:9(4)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

First decision of the game. Our stone on the left is a bit cramped but I don't see a good way of saving him. The 2 space extension n would be undercut and black's group is too strong to be really pressured by jumping out. If black plays there first I might try something like this.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Black is solid but over concentrated
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 O 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So the question is do I settle the upper side or do I tenuki (approach the upper right star point) I'm more in favor of tenukiing since the board is so open and I don't like leaving black with sente. If we play the standard joseki the gap between the marked stones is too small to be interesting yet:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 upper side pretty much settled
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . W . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . W . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

And if they pincer we fight! :rambo:

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"Cutting? Killing? Poking out eyes? What the hell are you playing?"

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4
Post #34 Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:10 am 
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ugh.... I don't like to change opening moves, but I think I'll regret approving this.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4
Post #35 Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:19 pm 
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[go]$$Bcm1 Move 10 - B:9(4) W:9(4)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . b a . . . . 0 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This move is too thin. With the marked stone so weak; it is even more of a priority to ensure that the top group is completely solid, or the multiple weaknesses could become a pretty big liability. As black I probably would consider pincering or playing directly at b.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4
Post #36 Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:48 am 
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[go]$$Bcm11 Move 10 - B:10(0) W:10(0)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Other option:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Move 10 - B:10(0) W:10(0)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . 1 . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I considered this two-space low pincer to hopefully get a base for the pincer stone and simultaneously attack the group at the top left with a follow up on H17, but I don't see how to respond to white playing L16 in a good way. If I hane outside then connect, I'm going to have to do it in gote and then that group would come under immediate attack - not good.

As for the move I want to play:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Move 10 - B:10(0) W:10(0)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


or:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Move 10 - B:10(0) W:10(0)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This kind of thing anyway. Hopefully I'm not screwing up too badly :P ...

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4
Post #37 Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 2:30 am 
Tengen
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KGS: topazg
Approved

Quite a few options here, not least the idea of jumping out to attack that stone in a big way. However, we can play a good influential game from pressing down here, and it would be nice to take sente to pincer the top right approach stone. I want to pincer that because F16 is high, making the top interesting, and R3 is low, making the right side less interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4
Post #38 Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 11:44 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 324
Location: Dresden
Liked others: 26
Was liked: 22
Rank: KGS 7 kyu
KGS: Mnemonic, dude13
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Move 12 - B:10(1) W:10(0)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think I'm just going to treat the C13 stone as kikashi. It looks like black has played 4 stones to not even completely capture one white one (ok, they also have some influence and have undercut the corner) But I think a double approach like this is probably sente and that leaves the stone on the left as aji for later :)

_________________
While I was teaching the game to a friend of mine, my mother from the other room:
"Cutting? Killing? Poking out eyes? What the hell are you playing?"

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4
Post #39 Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 4:28 pm 
Lives in sente

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Approved.

I don't agree with Mnemonic's assessment, to allow black to kill one stone completely solidly can make our life hard, but I think I'm flexible enough to get something out of this.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4
Post #40 Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 6:15 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 152
Liked others: 8
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Rank: 5d KGS
Sorry everyone for being slow - tons of work to do lately as my final exams are coming up, they're done in about 4 weeks, so after then I'll be able to speed up a lot :) .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm13 Move 13 - B:10(1) W:10(1)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Okay. I've read D9 and D10 for half an hour each or so, and it seems white can definitely live if we play D9, and possibly lives if we play D10 too (jump to B10 lives?!) So, I'm going to play it safe and play this point to ensure white can't do any funny business and live. White probably needs 2 more moves the kill the top right, and even if he does, the territory along the left (along with the influence pointing towards the right and down) is probably worth more. Sorry if this is too small and D9/D10 are better as I realise in this game every single point will count, but I do think this is a more secure move (and one I'm more comfortable with).

Our other reasonable alternative is C9. This doesn't kill (assuming I've read this right - another 20 minutes or so!), but if white chooses to live, we get a big wall with a ton of thickness. However, the net territory swing is probably 20-30 points, and in this variation (C10) we get amount of influence also. We don't have to worry about aji problems with the stone living later too if the potential thickness pointing towards the right became compromised in its usefulness. Is the extra thickness from the C9 variation worth 20-30 points? Probably not considering we already have some decent thickness from this variation... And with the aji problems, I prefer C10...

Hopefully I won't get shouted at :D ...

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