It is currently Fri Apr 26, 2024 8:29 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 286 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 15  Next
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #61 Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:36 pm 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 5539
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1103
Was liked: 1456
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Aphelion wrote:
...
[hide]If white gets to this point he lives automatically, and puts my pincer stone in an awkward position. I need to play here to maintain the balance of power. This is also big endgame in its own right.


I couldn't have said it better.


I approve.

_________________
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #62 Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:43 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 766
Liked others: 24
Was liked: 59
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
Friendly reminder: its your move, Phelan :razz:

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #63 Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:32 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1449
Liked others: 1562
Was liked: 140
Rank: KGS 6k
GD Posts: 892
Aphelion wrote:
Friendly reminder: its your move, Phelan :razz:

Sorry, don't expect a move from me for a week or so. :(
Reason in my signature:

_________________
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
Associação Portuguesa de Go

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #64 Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:08 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 476
Liked others: 193
Was liked: 83
Rank: Dutch 2 dan
GD Posts: 56
KGS: hopjesvla
Wow, this game sequence feels heavy! In a sense, the whole point of white's initial two-point jump was to play lightly and leave options open. In the diagramme below, the 1-2 exchange doesn't really hurt the plan - in fact I think it is good because if white pincers without it, black can crosscut, which could be hard to handle for white. But by exchanging 3-4, white takes away all possibility of living in the corner later on. This is extra painful because due to white's earlier tenuki, black already has one extra stone in place.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1 2 . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Instead of the game, I believe something like this is better (3 can also be one line higher). Later white can still live with the sequence a-g, so his stones are quite light.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c a . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . b O X g |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . X . . O d X e . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . f . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
My name is Gijs, from Utrecht, NL.

When in doubt, play the most aggressive move

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #65 Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:32 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1449
Liked others: 1562
Was liked: 140
Rank: KGS 6k
GD Posts: 892
Sorry all for the delays.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14 Move 14 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=8, W=9
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Don't really know what to play here. I'm going with my assumptions of an attack on the black stone, and the running fight.
I hesitated between the above and the ones below:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Other moves I considered
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . a W . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . b c . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
Associação Portuguesa de Go

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #66 Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:52 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Not approved:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14 Move 14 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=8, W=8
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . C . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . 1 . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Gosh, this is complicated. I'm trying to avoid the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14 Move 14 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=8, W=9
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . a , . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I want to use Black's weaknesses to help out the top right group, but Black must not be allowed to have such good moves as "a" against the top side. The next move has to handle the top right group I think, which means any stones we play on the top now must be ok to handle Black's response. I'm envisaging something like:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14 Move 14 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=8, W=9
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . 1 . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It's very awkwardly thin. I think pulling back in the top right has just made White heavy, so we need some flexibility to handle this well. A very subtle and awkward position here !

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #67 Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:42 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 766
Liked others: 24
Was liked: 59
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14 Move 14 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=8, W=8
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . C . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . 1 . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ugh, this move is harder to handle than the lower pincer. I probably will just jump out, though I am toying with the following sequence, aiming at 'a' or 'b'

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 Move 14 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=8, W=8
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . 4 O . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 1 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . b . . . a X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Problem is, this gives white too much on the top left, and also instinctually doesn't feel right. The one point jump just feels a little flimsy to me however. I'm going to ruminate on this more.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #68 Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:02 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 766
Liked others: 24
Was liked: 59
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
More thoughts:
After some thought I think the 1 point jump is the way to go, but I'm worried about this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X 4 . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


After this there are a lot of variations, but I don't see any which prevents a connection while keeping white weak. I could prevent this with M18, but I don't think I'm strong enough in the area to play a move like that and give up the initiative to run out (I haven't thought deeply about W2, but giving White another move in the outside running situation feels bad):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is the reason I considered this sequence earlier:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . a , O . . . 4 O . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 1 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It still on the table for me at this point, but I feel I am under a lot of pressure to get sente to play 'a', something which I am not sure I can do. If White gets 'a' I feel like he has gotten the top left very efficiently.

Something else that just came to my mind is to make the following exchange first:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . W B . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


My feeling is that White doesn't gain quite as much from this exchange (still gets some though) and retains for me the option to play a little more lightly. I am mostly debating between these two attachments at this point.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #69 Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:38 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 766
Liked others: 24
Was liked: 59
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I rejected both attachments on to the pincer stone as they seem to give away quite a bit of profit to white for an uncertain increase in strength that may or may not benefit me. If white crosscuts as in my previous post this is how I will deal with it:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 9 7 5 . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 0 8 4 1 2 . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O 6 X 3 . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White will swallow my N17 stone but I will get quite solid in the area, nullifying the impact of the 5-4 stone, and I already have quite a bit of territory on the top right. This situation is my favor I think (not that I expect white to play this way, reading this sequence out was more a exercise for peace of mind).

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #70 Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:29 pm 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 5539
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1103
Was liked: 1456
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
I approve.
Not only is younger brother's move the best to deal with the pincer, but it threatens P14 - I think.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . B . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #71 Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:51 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1449
Liked others: 1562
Was liked: 140
Rank: KGS 6k
GD Posts: 892
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16 Move 16 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=8, W=8
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm not sure which is the right side.
Running out by pushing on P12 doesn't seem that good. If I were black I'd welcome it...
I also wonder if black can pincer our stone, or cap it instead of responding.

But jumping out with K14 leaves problems behind for the right white group:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16 Jumping out
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . b . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 a . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I also considered a, b and c, but all seemed too fragile and wishy washy.

_________________
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
Associação Portuguesa de Go

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #72 Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:31 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Not approved!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16 Move 16 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=8, W=7
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . C X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


We may have to push from behind along the 4th line if things go badly, but I'm not doing it unless we have to. Let's kick up a big fight first, we have more stones here, there's lots of things White can hope for, but giving Black lovely territory is not high on that list.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #73 Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:43 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 766
Liked others: 24
Was liked: 59
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
This feels like overplay, I need to read carefully here..

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #74 Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:37 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 476
Liked others: 193
Was liked: 83
Rank: Dutch 2 dan
GD Posts: 56
KGS: hopjesvla
Not for players
topazg wrote:
Not approved!

We may have to push from behind along the 4th line if things go badly, but I'm not doing it unless we have to. Let's kick up a big fight first, we have more stones here, there's lots of things White can hope for, but giving Black lovely territory is not high on that list.

For the second time I disagree with topazg. This way, he's surely going to run out of corrections quite soon...

What's the problem with pushing? If there would be a chance, even a slim chance, of attacking black's group on the right side, thén you want to avoid pushing. In the game however, black is already 100% alive. Therefore, all that you are giving away by pushing once is 3 points of territory. In return, you fix up your shape and get ready for attacking. Granted, white's shape will still be less than perfect, but that's what you get for making the heavy slide into the corner.

Aphelion wrote:
This feels like overplay, I need to read carefully here..

I completely agree with this. Now is not the time to be timid, make him regret not solidifying his group! My sealed moves are below. Notice how badly white has made his life difficult with the marked exchanges:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16 My moves for black
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . # . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . @ @ # . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . 4 . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
My name is Gijs, from Utrecht, NL.

When in doubt, play the most aggressive move

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #75 Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:17 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 766
Liked others: 24
Was liked: 59
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
I'm a little preoccupied this week, but I will make a move by Friday.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #76 Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:22 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 766
Liked others: 24
Was liked: 59
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16 Move 16 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=8, W=7
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I haven't been able to spend too much time reading out variations, but gut feeling says I have to cut here, and this seems like the easiest way. I will do some serious readingin a bit.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #77 Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:19 pm 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 5539
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1103
Was liked: 1456
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Aphelion wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16 Move 16 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=8, W=7
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I haven't been able to spend too much time reading out variations, but gut feeling says I have to cut here, and this seems like the easiest way. I will do some serious readingin a bit.


My gut feel says that this is the right idea, but implemented in the wrong way.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16 Move 16 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=8, W=7
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . B . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I like this better. When we attach to a stone, the ensuing fight will make it stronger. We do not want to make the target stones stronger.
This may be a moot point, for best play may result in both moves being played.

_________________
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #78 Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:28 pm 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 5539
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1103
Was liked: 1456
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16 Move 16 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=7, W=7
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . B . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #79 Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:25 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1449
Liked others: 1562
Was liked: 140
Rank: KGS 6k
GD Posts: 892
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm17 Move 17 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=7, W=7
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . W X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I don't see how we can still keep our stones connected and theirs separated. This is the best move that comes to me for that purpose, but I'm not sure if it works.

_________________
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
Associação Portuguesa de Go

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #80 Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:41 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Approved!

We don't need to keep everything connected, or even alive. We just need to choose carefully :)

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 286 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 15  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group