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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #141 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:36 am 
Gosei
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Some thoughts:
I really don't like this move, which means it must be good. :(

Some alternatives:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 3 O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O B 4 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 3 O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O B 4 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O B 1 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 2 1 O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O B 3 9 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 8 . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't see any way to keep the black group separated while staying strong enough to still attack it.
I need to think this over more, so Daniel doesn't have to make a correction.

_________________
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #142 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:46 am 
Gosei
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http://senseis.xmp.net/?Kikashi wrote:
Kikashi, a Japanese go term adopted into English, is a sente move that produces a certain additional effect. Because it has done its work, it can normally be freely abandoned unless it is part of a much larger chain or group...


As long as Phelan plays something that requires some sort of response I probably won't correct it. I hope he doesn't continue locally, though, as that would pretty much ruin the point of the forcing move at all. If you play it out right now it's very unlikely to work. The idea is to leave it for later.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #143 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:12 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30 Move 30 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=6, W=3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't see any other moves at this point... and tenuki does not seem like an option. Hope I'm doing the right thing.

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a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #144 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:10 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: lavalamp
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I tried really hard to approve that one but I couldn't, sorry... :/

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29 Move 29 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=6, W=2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . C O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I know I said I wouldn't change it. But I get the idea that Phelan will just keep on playing in this area. I won't be able to let him play five moves here, as each one will just be making our grave larger. So I guess I will stop this right now.

I'm glad Phelan posted his game in another thread. Judging from that game it seems I will be wanting to make a lot of corrections. This is not good, we're already way low. Also I think I slightly prefer black on this board. It seems clear we will run out. So the question is, do I accept bad moves in hopes of preventing a terrible one later? How do I know when a move is bad enough to be worth changing?

I'm changing this one in hopes of preventing a whole sequence of bad moves...

I picked the move I did because it will hopefully let us go a few moves without a correction. Also I want to limit black's framework. I think if we end up needing to invade it later we won't have the corrections to pull it off. Hopefully the board will simplify a bit and we can get back a correction.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #145 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:12 pm 
Judan
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To observers:
I think that Daniel was correct to readjust white's latest move. Aphelion played the perfect shape move for the position, and the best that white can do is leave them for ko threats.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc black dies here
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X 2 3 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Also, trying to get out like this doesn't really work either:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . a b . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X 1 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . 4 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White is pushing the cart before the horse. 'A' and 'b' are miai. If white survives at all, it will be a very few points, in gote, while black gets a massive wall.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #146 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:02 pm 
Lives in sente
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Move 31 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=6, W=2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


With the strength I have up top the only real options I considered were the two close pincers. Didn't pincer low because I didn't like this sequence:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Move 31 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=6, W=2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


My goal is for White to run out or live small, not to allow him to settle so comfortably.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #147 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:11 pm 
Judan
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I approve.

I'm just going to prop up my feet and watch while my younger brother beats them single-handedly.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #148 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:59 pm 
Gosei
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Move tomorrow.
I'll probably play this, it's my first instinct, but it's late and I want to sleep on it.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm32 First instinct
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #149 Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:35 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm32 Move 32 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=6, W=2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


My first instinct still feels like the best.

I also considered the moves below:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Didn't like these as much
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . b . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #150 Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:26 pm 
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If daniel approves:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$bcm33 Move 33 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=6, W=2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't see an alternative to this.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #151 Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:39 pm 
Judan
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Phelan wrote:
From the first post: "Each team starts with a counter of 10 total changes, and after every five consecutive moves without a change this counter will increment by one." :sad:


I think we get to be incremented to 7. The last move I changed was #21; Aphelion played 23, 25, 27, 29, and 31 with no help from me.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=6, W=2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O 3 X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O 7 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #152 Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:45 am 
Gosei
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Approved.

There, I knew I'd get a move I could live with. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #153 Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:59 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm33 Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=7 - 0 , W=2 - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Incremented corrections for Black, added turns without correction after (if Joaz approves it will be the first one).

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #154 Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:17 pm 
Gosei
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I'm undecided between M4 and P8, but M4 is more likely to happen as I'm not sure if I know the pattern that follows P8 well enough.

P8 would be to try and use the aji of the lost stones further up, but I'm not sure if it's better to play elsewhere and save it for later when we're stronger.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #155 Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:06 pm 
Judan
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Another honte move. I approve.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #156 Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:33 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm34 Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=7 - 1 , W=2 - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . W . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This white group is still weak, having no eyes and no base. In those cases you either make a base for it, or run it towards the middle. Usually it's better to get a base first, but in this case I think running works well with the stones we have, and still leaves a possibility for invading the corner/side later.

This comes at the expense of making black's south side stronger, and giving them almost territory, but I think it's worth it.
I expect:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm34 Response 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . W . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 5 3 . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 2 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Or this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm34 Response 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , 5 W 2 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #157 Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:37 pm 
Gosei
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Approved.

It's realllllly good Phelan picked this move and not the other one he was thinking about (P8)!

I don't know if I would play this but it doesn't seem like there's anything wrong with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #158 Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:14 pm 
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I think this is an overplay. I obviously can't let white enclose me like this and need to exploit the cut in the keima in some fashion. The only question is if I should do so directly or play some preparatory moves first.

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Post #159 Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:22 pm 
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This doesn't look too bad to me (locally), but it seems very willing to fight, and black is definitely the better fighter.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #160 Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:54 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm35 Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=7 - 1 , W=2 - 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . B O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm not 100% sure this is the right move. However, it suits my style, and all other moves seem to concede too much. IMO White should have played there 1 point jump, and whereas directly cutting the keima may not always be best idea, I couldn't think of any indirect ways to profit from the weakness of that connection.

Here's some of my reading:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Clearly fails for White
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 1 O 5 O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O 2 3 . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 White cannot fix both 'a' and 'b'
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 b . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 1 O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , a O 2 3 . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 1 O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , 6 O 2 3 . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Things really branch out if White plays 6, but with Black having 1 weak group and White taking care of two, I think we'll be fine. Q7 can be treated light, I just need to be careful of the aji of o14 if this fight expands.

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