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| Big Brother Malkovich #2 http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=775 |
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| Author: | daniel_the_smith [ Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2 |
Approved. I can haz another correction nao plz? I prefer defending the corner, I think, but this separates a black stone and ensures that black won't make a lot of points here, so I can live with it. I don't think we'll have many points in the corner now, we'll have to make it up on the bottom. I've thought of a way to value the corrections via an exponential function. So the first one is worth about 2 points and the 10th one is worth 50 or more. This might help me decide what's worth changing. |
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| Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2 |
Ahhh...they fall into the trap...they make a splitting attack toward our wall and leave the corner undefended.  |
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| Author: | Magicwand [ Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2 |
Phelan wrote:
Difficult move to reply to...Do I treat it as an approach on the corner and protect it, leaving black to develop a moyo, or do I try to hinder the moyo and leave the corner open for invasion? Let's try going for the moyo. for obs only: i like way he played. defending the corner is very passive in my opinion. what he played is actually defending the corner and same time cutting down the moyo developed in the middle. professional play in my opinion. |
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| Author: | topazg [ Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2 |
I agree with magicwand. I think this is a very interesting move too. Black cannot easily play in the corner and expect a good result, as he'll have two-ish groups to White's one. In the corner I prefer C17 to C16 for White. We'll see what Black does. |
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| Author: | gaius [ Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2 |
Wow. Joaz Banbeck's corrections never cease to amaze me. I personally think that in both of those cases Phelan's move was clearly superior. I might be wrong, but damn, what a way to waste two valuable rescue opportunities later on! Let's hope for Phelan's sake that they will not lose the game in a tricky semeai due to having 0 corrections... |
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| Author: | Aphelion [ Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2 |
I don't like this move. I don't like any of our moves. I think the bottom is getting big, and I would play my original attachment again, but then I think that would make our last move pointless. When Joaz tenukied from the cap he indicated that it was a light stone, a probe to make White choose one side. White took the top, so logically we should take the 3-4 point and steal the corner away from him. But instead we played a move that *should* prompt White to solidify the corner. The way I see it the top is small, with little prospect of territory for either side. So essentially, I am still in the dark as to Joaz's intentions, which means that I might cost us yet another correction....
I'm basically playing the numbers game here. To be honest I feel that 'a' this is the worse move compared to 'b' , but it is the most logical continuation of our previous plays. It also means that after invading the corner, I will still be uncertain of Joaz's intentions regarding the bottom, so I will need every correction I can get. However, if Joaz next corrects this moves and turns to the bottom, I'd at least have a better strategic sense for our continuations. Then a correction might not hurt as much. I'm quite worried if White takes sente some how (or just directly tenukis) and gets a move like 'c' or 'd'. In fact, I smell a major fight looming, and corrections are going to be worth their weight in gold. These few moves are the most important ones of the game, and this also happens to be the point in the game where I am most confused. I really need to figure out what Joaz is thinking soon, or we could be in deep trouble... |
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| Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2 |
I approve. |
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| Author: | Aphelion [ Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2 |
damnit |
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| Author: | Phelan [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2 |
Ouch. I was expecting it, but still... I should have already had a plan in place to deal with this invasion. The normal response to a pincer would be to jump out, but here it looks weak and overconcentrated:
It also gives away too much of the corner and side for my liking. I could try to get the corner, but I'm not sure Black will play this sequence, and I don't know this joseki that well.
I don't think the influence they get is worth as much as the corner here. I could go for the side, but again I'm not sure of the sequences:
Not bad? I don't know. I still don't like the huge amount of territory black just got. Both of these leave the marked black stone completely safe. I wanted to threaten it somehow...
All of the moves I would normally use to threaten it seem too weak here, though. So it can't be attacked right now. I think I'm going with the corner,and see what happens. Edit: Daniel, I hope this game is being less frustrating than the other BB game.  |
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| Author: | Aphelion [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2 |
Daniel, its to you. Trigger:
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| Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2 |
I approve of Aphelion's trigger. In other words, if Daniel approves of W46, we play B47 as indicated, and Phelan it is your play again. |
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| Author: | daniel_the_smith [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2 |
Sorry guys, I was thinking about this one. I guess I'll approve it... I'm not really a fan of this move but it's hard to find anything better. And I guess I should only fix large mistakes anyway, and this isn't a large one, if a mistake at all... |
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| Author: | Phelan [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2 |
Not sure what to say here. "This is joseki."? It's definitely not as good as the sequence I mentioned before. Black will then play either a or b.
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| Author: | daniel_the_smith [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2 |
*nods* |
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| Author: | Aphelion [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2 |
Here's the plan.  takes away a good chunk of the side and brings  to life.
Edit: Fixed corrections, White gets incremented to 4. |
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| Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2 |
I approve. It's good to be thinking along the same lines as my teammate again. In addfition to his diagram, we have this posibility:
Or this:
BTW, if white ever tries to strengthen his K-file stones to go after our G16 stone, our natural defence includes an attack on the upper right. After black 4, white must defend his corner or 'a' kills:
So G16 is stronger than it appears. |
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| Author: | Phelan [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2 |
Thoughts: Quote:
Ok, this one is not joseki (as far as I know)...but the corner seems small and our group can run easily, so I'll try taking the rest of the side we can still get. ...was what I was going to post. I just saw Black E14, though. I'll think it over and post a move tomorrow. |
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| Author: | Phelan [ Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2 |
I first considered B13, as you can see in the post above. But E14 screws that up:
So I started considering alternatives that also keep the side for us:
Not good enough.
Also not good enough. So, I see no effective way to keep the side without fighting it out with Black, and I don't think it the fight is worth it, after that exchange in the top right. That means we have to either live locally, or jump out, before trying to limit Black's potential in the left. So I'll change the focus to the other side:
Also not good.
This one seems too mild. Maybe living locally?
Hmm, forcing black to play 49 or a seems interesting, since we can put some pressure on their group while building a wall to the left. I think I'll go with that. Daniel, feel free to choose a fighting alternative if you see a good line. |
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| Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2 |
To observers: I don't think that Daniel will let this go. If he does, they lose sente if they play 'a', or give us easy life if we play it.
They could play 'b', with an eye toward the ko at 'c', but we have lots of threats over in the top right. So I think they need something like 'd'. |
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| Author: | daniel_the_smith [ Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2 |
Sorry, still thinking about this. I don't like this move, it's not in an important area of the board. I'd like to tenuki, but can I? |
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0, 
0 Corrections: B=6 - 0 , W=3 - 3