Life In 19x19
http://lifein19x19.com/

Big Brother Malkovich #2
http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=775
Page 14 of 15

Author:  Aphelion [ Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoners: 0, 0 Corrections: B=7 - 4 , W=3 - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . B . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I have no prospect of attacking that stone, so lets lean on it to gain some strength. Jumping out is bad I think because it will be purely a situation where I am running for life. I have a lot of ideas that I will show when I return from work, but they mostly revolve around the possibility of me getting D6

Author:  Aphelion [ Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Some thoughts:
My first instinct was to jump here, but you can see this way I am left with simply two floating stones with no prospect of living locally and no ability to pressure any white stones. White may be stronger locally, but I refuse to just take a beating unilaterally. If I have to fight for life, I will make White sweat a bit too.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . 1 . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Since the pincer stone is already strong, I don't have any hope of jumping out and aiming to counter attack it. So I will attach on it and try to make him over concentrated. After that I can double approach. White can cut off my original stone and make 4th line territory on bottom, but I will have sente and a solid position in the center, aiming at the 'a' cut. Considering my point lead and White's moyo previously, this is a success. White still has to deal with the vexation of the open skirt.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . 9 . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 8 3 1 2 . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X 0 O 4 , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Some other ways White can resist:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Doesn't seem to end well for White
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 2 . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 4 . X X O . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . 7 O 5 X . O O , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . 9 8 . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 There's this, but I will read it out when the time comes...
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 1 2 . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O 5 7 . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 0 8 . 6 9 . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Sorry about the delay. I had joined a gang...

I disapprove.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoners: 0, 0 Corrections: B=6 - 4 , W=3 - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . C . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White has made the most aggressive play against our F4 stone, so I see no reason to commit to it. Let it be a light stone, maybe used to facilitate an invasion of the corner.
The other effect of white's play is the beginning of a central moyo. We have a growing chunk of terrirory on the right side, so this play is the intersection between two moyos.


Record-keeping question: Before my move, we had "7-4" I changed it to "6-4". Should the 4 reset to 0?

Author:  Aphelion [ Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Joaz, the 7-4 should be changed to 6-0.
I dont' know whats going on anymore...

Author:  Redundant [ Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Most of Joaz's corrections in this game seem to solely aim at being inconsistent with the previous move played. If you're going to invade, invade. Don't start with an invasion, then move to a reduction.

Author:  jts [ Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Redundant wrote:
Most of Joaz's corrections in this game seem to solely aim at being inconsistent with the previous move played. If you're going to invade, invade. Don't start with an invasion, then move to a reduction.

there's a fine line between inconsistent and light play, no? (I understand this comment if it's narrowly a critique of a big brother strategy, though.)

Author:  Shaddy [ Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

jts wrote:
Redundant wrote:
Most of Joaz's corrections in this game seem to solely aim at being inconsistent with the previous move played. If you're going to invade, invade. Don't start with an invasion, then move to a reduction.

there's a fine line between inconsistent and light play, no? (I understand this comment if it's narrowly a critique of a big brother strategy, though.)

The problem is that the stone is not very light, so this is inconsistent. A stone is light if it has forced one's opponent to make an exchange which is not beneficial for him, and I'm sure white wanted to solidify the side. That said, I like neither aph's move nor joaz's correction (the correction is better than aph's move, though). I think f4 was simply a wrong move (perhaps it should have been at joaz's move here, and then black can treat m2 and the 3-3 invasion as miai), and now that it's on the board black has to d3 and then make a small life on the side.

edit. i'm stupid, m2 and the 3-3 invasion are both pretty much sente, so black can have his cake and eat it twice.

Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Yes, that move needed to change. But... there? I wish Joaz changed more moves! :twisted:

Author:  Phelan [ Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm62 Prisoners: 0, 0 Corrections: B=6 - 0 , W=3 - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . W . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Trying to keep the moyo going. Hopefully I'll still be able to play between those two black stones.

Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Approve.
I want to punish that tenuki but I'm not sure it's worth a correction.

Author:  Aphelion [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm62 Prisoners: 0, 0 Corrections: B=6 - 0 , W=3 - 4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm frustrated. I don't understand why Joaz changed my moves; all these exchanges we make just seems to make our life harder on the lower left, which I believe has been the focus of the game for the last 30 or so moves. Now even the cut at E11 looks less appealing as our last exchange just hurt us in a future running fight. I'm just hoping to live here without getting sealed in....

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

To observers:
Aphelion wrote:
I dont' know whats going on anymore...[


But surely he can get the message that I think that the H5 attachment was no good. We were one move away from getting another correction. If it were merely that I thought that M8 had to be played sometime, but that H5 was a good move, I could have waited one move, gotten the extra correction, and then played M8. But I didn't.

I sacrificed 4/5 of a correction. If he thinks about why I did it, he can come to the conclusion that I think that H5 is the wrong move.

Sacrificing something has meaning. It is like playing defense in bridge. If I toss a king onto my partner's opening lead of an ace ( in a suit contract ), it tells him that he should lead that suit.

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

I approve.

Author:  dangomango [ Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

are spectators allow to comment on current moves?

Author:  Redundant [ Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

dangomango wrote:
are spectators allow to comment on current moves?

It's usually best to keep it to hide tags.

Author:  Phelan [ Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm62 Prisoners: 0, 0 Corrections: B=6 - 1 , W=3 - 4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . W X . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't think I can cut here.

Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Accepted.

Only move...

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

To opponents ( and Aphelion after he plays ):
I approve the crosscut.

Author:  Aphelion [ Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

I was meaning to play D3 here, but now that I actually look at it it doesn't look good. It just makes me heavy without giving me a base. I'm considering the jump or the crosscut here

Author:  Aphelion [ Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm62 Prisoners: 0, 0 Corrections: B=6 - 2 , W=4 - 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . B O . X . O . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't know if this is good but everything else seems bad. I just have to be careful not to let W sacrifice for an outside wall

More thoughts:
This is more a feeling move than anything else. I haven't read too much into it, but I know a few things: I must cause complication in order to get a decent result here, and I must do so in a way that causes real threats to the White position. The jump and the pull back are all a one-sided beating by White on my stones, something that I cannot allow. I must increase the risk for White here.


Edit: Looks like Joaz approved so its now Phelan's turn.

Page 14 of 15 All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/