It is currently Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:44 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 295 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15  Next
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #241 Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:20 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4893
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 780
Was liked: 1156
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
[nohide] Even without reading his hidden comments, I love younger brother's fighting spirit. :bow:
[/nohide]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #242 Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:07 am 
Oza

Posts: 2459
Location: DC
Liked others: 145
Was liked: 435
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Go is about fighting. If I wanted a peaceful game, we'd be playing Candyland or something.


This post by skydyr was liked by: Joaz Banbeck
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #243 Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:27 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 716
Liked others: 666
Was liked: 133
Rank: Washed up never was
Universal go server handle: Splatted
Sorry I'm a little unclear. Was that an approval of the move or just the spirit in which it was played?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #244 Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:24 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4893
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 780
Was liked: 1156
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Splatted wrote:
Sorry I'm a little unclear. Was that an approval of the move or just the spirit in which it was played?


That was an approval of the spirit. :mrgreen: Approving the move may take a while, especially since I'm rather busy for the next few days.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #245 Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:48 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4893
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 780
Was liked: 1156
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
I approve.
This is obviously a sacrifice. It is needed to ensure that C11 or D11 is sente.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #246 Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:14 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4893
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 780
Was liked: 1156
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
{hide tags removed}
Splatted wrote:
Just so you all know, I'm starting uni on monday (and moving there on saturday) so my move rate might be slow for a while. I'm sure I'll be able to make time for it but things will be a little hectic at first. :salute:


Hehehe...it is time to make a really complicated position. :twisted:


Six days have passed. Did I make it too complicated? :lol:

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #247 Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:11 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 716
Liked others: 666
Was liked: 133
Rank: Washed up never was
Universal go server handle: Splatted
lol sorry. I'll post my move later today.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #248 Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:26 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4893
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 780
Was liked: 1156
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
There has been a lot of chatter, so I'm reposting the current position for the benefit of observers.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm48 :b18: :w15:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #249 Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:43 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 716
Liked others: 666
Was liked: 133
Rank: Washed up never was
Universal go server handle: Splatted
First thing to check, does the ladder work? Unfortunately not, so what else can I do. My perspective is that this situation hinges on the safety of my two cutting stones at C10, so I need to look at how I can protect them, and I see two options.

The first is to play the atari cut at E11 again, and the second is to take white's last stone. Capturing white's stone looks like it might lead to a tombstone tesuji and then all white has to do is move out with his two stones.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 :b18: :w15:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | O O X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O O O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | O O X X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So we're back to considering E11. I'm not going to worry too much about the fact that Tim corrected it before, because I feel like my earlier play suffered a lot from trying to read the BBs minds instead of focusing on what has happened on the board. I will re-examine this move thoroughly, especially given that we've made an exchange that clearly affects it, but in the end I'm going to play the move that I think's best and let Tim correct me if need be. For all I know his correction was supposed to be a probe to set up E11.


I'll post more later.

Edit: corrected diagram


Last edited by Splatted on Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #250 Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:45 am 
Oza

Posts: 2459
Location: DC
Liked others: 145
Was liked: 435
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Still thinking?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #251 Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:25 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 716
Liked others: 666
Was liked: 133
Rank: Washed up never was
Universal go server handle: Splatted
I'm really sorry about the wait. I decided I needed to get up earlier so I could get a couple of hours of bass practice done before classes, but changing my sleep cycle resulted in temporary zombification.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm48 :b18: :w15:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . 3 X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So, E11:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 :b18: :w15:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 3 X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . 5 1 4 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X 2 . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Clearly my old plan doesn't work anymore (Did it ever?), so I need to rethink things. What are my options here? As I see it, there are two ways in which I could try and play this: Be aggressive and try and kill black's C9 stones, or peacefully sacrifice my stones. Since I can't capture black's stones directly I need to start by defending my stones if I want to fight, but I've already looked at the only two options for that and didn't like either so I need to find a good way to sacrifice. Even though I think this area is important I will tenuki if I can't find a sequence I like, because I have resolved to stop playing moves I dislike.

There does seem to be a nice way to sacrifice simply by forcing black to capture my B9 stone (and defend his E10 stone).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 :b18: :w15:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X a . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . 8 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X 7 . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | 6 C X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 2 1 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is like my earlier plan (I'll repost it below for convenience), except better so I really should like it, but I just can't see it as an acceptable result. I said before that I was happy to settle my group in way that threatened to cut at "a", but now I think that's not good enough when black has sente. What happens if black just defends the cut? I've settled my group and gained some thickness, but what am I supposed to do with it? All black's stones are strong and after the the territory he gained he has no need to take any risks. It seems foolish to deliberately create a game where I'm behind on territory and my opponent is the one with the solid positions from which to expand, so this is definitely out.

So once again I need to come up with another idea, but what? Well I've identified a serious problem: All black really needs to do to win is settle his groups, so I need to stop him doing that. With that goal in mind, playing B11 and trying to fight it out with the C9 stones becomes more tempting, but the strong black stones on the bottom mean it's still pretty unappealing. The other option is of course the previously mentioned cut at "a", and this seems much more viable. I'm not exactly strong in the area, but at least black isn't either. It may end in disaster, but using the fight to settle my weak groups also seems like a possibility, and that would definitely make this game easier.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 11 at marked white stone
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . a X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 3 . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . 8 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 7 . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . 9 6 X 1 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 . W 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Edit:

Now I'm thinking I should have played kikashi at f10 first:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 :b18: :w15:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . 3 X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X 1 . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #252 Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:51 pm 
Oza

Posts: 2459
Location: DC
Liked others: 145
Was liked: 435
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
I guess Splatted is offering a trade. I find it difficult to evaluate the result, as I need to read to see if I would be able to kill the entire bottom left in exchange. I suppose we'll see if it gets approved.


I'm going to be out of town next week, so I may or may not end up posting.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #253 Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:35 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4893
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 780
Was liked: 1156
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
For observers:
I'm suffering whiplash again. That is a huge tenuki. He says that the top is more important than the left side. :scratch:

I don't think that Tim82 can let this stand. Even if he agrees with younger brother's belief about priorities, he still has to move the stone over one space.

It is too easy for us to to respond like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . a . . b . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . 1 X 2 W . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X W . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Now black is threatening 'a' to connect, and 'b' to undermine the marked white stones.

The proper way to isolate black is this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X 1 . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

I think that it is three stones better. So if Tim decides that he agrees with the general idea of the tenuki, he will play F17. ( And he will give us three stones. :clap: )

But...once he decides that he will have to give us three stones, he will probably decide to go back to the left. Either way...


I think that we have three stones coming our way. :mrgreen:

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #254 Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:47 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 241
Liked others: 11
Was liked: 28
Rank: EGF 1 dan
Universal go server handle: TIM82
Online playing schedule: sometimes KGS
Sorry, disapproved :cry:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm48 :b18: :w18:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . 3 . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This move seems like the only option - it took so long because I was thinking whether to withdraw from this game :sad: Splatted's last move makes me feel like my fears regarding Malkovich game format have come true: the stronger player has hijacked the game plan from little brother, who is then trying various things in the dark. Is that fun for anybody? In ideal world Malkovich should be about changing singular moves, not derailing the whole game IMHO. I'll try to continue for a little longer at least, let's see if my feelings change.

I read the tombstone tesuji Splatted mentioned above as working for us? Perhaps I'm ignoring something, and we will die messily? In any case, tenuki now is not an option. In my opinion black could even consider sacrificing H15 group in response to Splatted's proposed :w50: - in response black would destroy whole left side and build naturally bottom when we live with the C4 stones. Or if black would repond to :w50:, it would be absolute disaster for us if he got sente from there to come back to left.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #255 Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:52 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 241
Liked others: 11
Was liked: 28
Rank: EGF 1 dan
Universal go server handle: TIM82
Online playing schedule: sometimes KGS
Splatted wrote:
I guess we'll never know... :D

I really want to read that hide tag. I can't say I'm surprised there's something I overlooked, but this is different from all the other corrections in that I thought this was the "correct" move.


to Splatted:
I really hope all my changes make sense when you read my comments after the game. If they still don't, please ask (or just berate me as due if I have ignored something particularly stupid.) I try to give particular reasons for all my changes in the hidden comments. But I suck at this game quite much too... :lol:


This post by TIM82 was liked by: Splatted
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #256 Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:40 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4893
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 780
Was liked: 1156
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
TIM82 wrote:
... :b18: :w18:...
:tmbup:

To extend or not to extend...?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #257 Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:11 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4893
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 780
Was liked: 1156
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
For observers:
Let's assume that we don't extend. ( this is the simple line )
Then :b1: is the only move.

For beginners:
It is the only way to ensure a false eye at B10. The other atari looks like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B The squared stone at B10 becomes an eye
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . O 2 1 . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . # O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

This makes life too easy for white.

And white must capture at A10:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . O 1 . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 X O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


For beginners:
Letting black capture the C10/D10 stones makes all of his stones safe. White can't let this happen unless he wants to sacrifice them and get an outside wall.
Playing D11 just postpones the problem for white:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . O 1 2 3 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 4 X O O X a . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White will still have to capture with 4, and now he doesn't have the forcing move at 'a', which may be useful in some lines to keep black locked in against the side.

So we end up with this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc White 4 fills at B10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . O 1 3 . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 X O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The advantage of this line is that it is forcing for black: it avoids all sorts of troubles caused by white having an extra move while not in atari.

The disadvantage is that it starts making two eyes for white: one at A11 and on at A9.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | C O X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O O O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | C O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]



Therefore, black would much prefer to get this shape:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | O O X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O O O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

...which is achieved by this sequence:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | 2 O 3 . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 1 X O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | 4 O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc White 8 fills at 5
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | O O X 7 . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 6 5 O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


This, BTW, is the other alternative: the one in which black does extend.

The problem for black is that the extension is not sente. White can go for the line shown above, but he doesn't have to. He has a spare move to interpose. This can lead to lots of complications:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . O 2 . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 1 X O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . O . . 2 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 1 X O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 1 X O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 1 X O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If any one of these variations has a line that looks good for white, then it refutes the extension, and we will have to go for the immediate atari.

So, it may be that we have to settle for this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc White 4 fills at B10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . O 1 3 . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 X O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


...in which the white stones are stronger than the two black stones, so black must play 5 to escape.

So, in conclusion, the entertaining question for the observers is: can younger brother find ways to handle ALL possible white plays after the extension?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #258 Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:14 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 716
Liked others: 666
Was liked: 133
Rank: Washed up never was
Universal go server handle: Splatted
@Tim:

Thanks I'm looking forward to the post game discussion as much as reading the hidden comments, and sometimes I'm tempted to resign just so we can start now. :mrgreen:


Game Comment:

This correction is easier to accept. We'll see about the ensuing sequence, but the move Tim picked was the move I thought was the best local option, and in all honesty I can see that this fight is very important. I started to have serious doubts about my move as soon as I played it, but in a way I'm still glad that I got to see that the atari was the move that Tim wanted.

I mentioned before that I had resolved to stop playing moves I dislike and this situation is a prime example of why. It's mostly about pushing myself to experiment so I can become the kind of creative go player who (regardless of actual success) sees the board as being full of possibilities, but it's also about encouraging myself to avoid getting in to these situations in the first place because it can mean that bad situations that could have been endured with a small loss become catastrophic disasters.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #259 Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:51 pm 
Oza

Posts: 2459
Location: DC
Liked others: 145
Was liked: 435
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm48 :b18: :w18:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . 3 . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 4 X O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As described earlier.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #260 Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:26 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4893
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 780
Was liked: 1156
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Sometimes you just have to trust younger brother... :salute:

I approve.

I can't see any obvious disasters for us. Although there are a few potential variations that are going to give me nightmares tonight.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 295 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group