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 Post subject: How is that there are pro playing against kyu players?
Post #1 Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 4:40 am 
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Ago some hours (I woke in the night and I played one game in IGS and I saw that there are two pro, first one and after anoter, and they were playing with kyu players).

I saw a Kageyama 5P (plays against one +9kyu) and Alshida 9p (plays against +4kyu).

Are they paying for class of go or why there are pro playing with kyus? I dont hate it, only I got envy :roll:

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Post #2 Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:48 am 
Judan
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Hi Darsey,

Most likely, they are paid lessons. Go is work for pros.
If they just want to relax and have fun, they probably would not use their official pro accounts,
but use anonymous accounts instead.
If you see a pro account game with kyu or dan players, most likely it's a paid lesson.
If it's a private lesson and the game is set to private (on IGS or KGS), then you cannot watch it.
If both the student and teacher decide it's OK for others to watch, they may make it a public game, and you can watch it.

In your case, you can also notice the time to see if it's within normal working hours for the pro, in Japan. :)


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 Post subject: Re: How is that there are pro playing against kyu players?
Post #3 Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:49 pm 
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See http://www.pandanet.co.jp/lessongo/index_e.htm


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 Post subject: Re: How is that there are pro playing against kyu players?
Post #4 Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:44 pm 
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Oh. I imagine that they were giving lessons. But it was so strange to me because I could see one game and his chat was gobern for the silent.

Thanks to share link to see price of hire a pro.

Did someone pay a pro form lesson? I am not thinking in try it now, I think that I haven't lvl to take a pro class :roll:

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Post #5 Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:10 am 
Judan
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Darsey wrote:
Did someone pay a pro form lesson? I am not thinking in try it now, I think that I haven't lvl to take a pro class :roll:
Hi Darsey,

You can start taking pro lessons at any time.

Think in terms of piano lessons, violin lessons, tennis lessons, language lessons, etc.
Start pro lessons any time you can afford to, and think it's worth it for you. :)

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 Post subject: Re: How is that there are pro playing against kyu players?
Post #6 Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:15 pm 
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Darsey wrote:
I think that I haven't lvl to take a pro class


To be honest, it's better if you do it earlier than later. You'll get better fundamentals and less bad habits.

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 Post subject: Re: How is that there are pro playing against kyu players?
Post #7 Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:31 pm 
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You might consider that pros aren't exactly against being able to get paid for more hours.

Seriously, even if you're not "good enough", if you can afford it, you can just treat it as entertainment.

They certainly won't teach you anything bad or useless, anyway.

Part of being an ambassador for the game is being nice to anyone, regardless of how good or bad you happen to be at go.

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 Post subject: Re: How is that there are pro playing against kyu players?
Post #8 Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:34 pm 
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Not a professional, but you can get very good lessons here.

http://www.yunguseng.com/

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Post #9 Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:26 pm 
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Quote:
They certainly won't teach you anything bad or useless, anyway.
Part of being an ambassador for the game is being nice to anyone,
Unfortunately, neither statement is true.

For any group of individuals, there is a form of bell curve.
In this case, toward the right of the curve are very good teachers.
Within 1 or 2 standard deviations near the "middle" of this curve are the "average" teachers of this group.
At the very left of this curve are bad or exceptionally bad teachers and/or individuals.

If you have good luck and/or a good eye, you can find a very good teacher.
If you have very bad luck and/or bad judgement, you can get a teacher who will teach you useless or even wrong things, about Go or otherwise.

The same is true for the niceness of the person.

It's the simple reality of people.

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 Post subject: Re: How is that there are pro playing against kyu players?
Post #10 Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:30 pm 
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So there are actual pros who are unfriendly and bad teachers?

That does surprise me. I thought they'd at the very least "voluntarily retire" people who damage the image of their association.

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Post #11 Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:01 pm 
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Hi tentano,
tentano wrote:
So there are actual pros who are unfriendly and bad teachers?
Of course. ( There are also great teachers who are very nice people. Both are "edge" cases on the distribution curve. )
tentano wrote:
That does surprise me.
It shouldn't at all. They are people.

Do you really think:
  • all chess grandmasters are nice people and/or good teachers ?
  • all pro pianists are nice people and/or good teachers ?
  • all tennis pros are nice people and/or good teachers ?
  • all engineers are nice people and/or good teachers ?
  • all lawyers are nice people and/or good teachers ?
  • all physicians are nice people and/or good teachers ?
  • all pro boxers are nice people and/or good teachers ?
  • all F-1 drivers are nice people and/or good teachers ?
  • all NBA, NFL players are nice people and/or good teachers ?
  • all chefs are nice people and/or good teachers ?
  • The list goes on to all professions.

It's basic human nature.

A few areas:
  • Technical level of a field. (E.g. Go, chess, medicine, piano, etc.)
  • Teaching level of the same field.
  • Personality and/or character of the person.
  • The inter-relationships among the above have been discussed in various threads here, over the years.

One thing this shows is how little contact the general public has with Go pros,
and therefore the lack of information or mis-information people have toward them.

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 Post subject: Re: How is that there are pro playing against kyu players?
Post #12 Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:48 pm 
Oza
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Also there are teachers that may be great teachers, but they may not have a personality or style you work well with.

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Post #13 Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:51 pm 
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oren wrote:
Also there are teachers that may be great teachers, but they may not have a personality or style you work well with.
Exactly.

There is an infinite continuum of combinations of technical level, teaching level, and personality/style/character.

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 Post subject: Re: How is that there are pro playing against kyu players?
Post #14 Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:01 pm 
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oren wrote:
Not a professional, but you can get very good lessons here.

http://www.yunguseng.com/


If I have a job, I will join it. It is so expensive for a student that he must save all money that he can. I am not doubt about their methods, but I can't pay his quotas.

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 Post subject: Re: How is that there are pro playing against kyu players?
Post #15 Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:47 pm 
Oza
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Darsey wrote:
If I have a job, I will join it. It is so expensive for a student that he must save all money that he can. I am not doubt about their methods, but I can't pay his quotas.


Pro lessons usually get quite a bit more.

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 Post subject: Re: How is that there are pro playing against kyu players?
Post #16 Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:09 pm 
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tentano wrote:
So there are actual pros who are unfriendly and bad teachers?
...


I know of one pro who is a serious drunk, and rather unpleasant when sober. When drunk, he is moderately friendly, but plays at - and presumably teaches at - about the 5D level.

So he is not unfriendly AND a bad teacher simultaneously, but always one or the other.

I won't name him here.


Other than him, all of the pros that I have dealt with have been at least moderately friendly and at least moderately competent at teaching.

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