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Offline skydyr
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #341 Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:07 am 
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emeraldemon wrote:
white
I am afraid if we tennuki black can cut and the fight will be bad for us:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 5 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 8 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 9 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 6 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But we could play a move like this to protect the cut:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 5 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


My thoughts were to strengthen the center group in line with your second diagram.
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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #342 Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:30 pm 
Honinbo

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I see that Uberdude has beat me to the punch. I second his suggestion to extend.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 6 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 4 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Bruce Wilcox's idea that having only 4 dame is tactically problematic is a good guide here. After :w4: White has 6 dame. :) In addition :w4: threatens :w6:, which in turn threatens the Black group.

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #343 Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:25 am 
Judan
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@Observers:
What the heck are they talking about? :scratch:

It has been about a week. And even an SDK who spends five minutes analyzing the position should be able to see that white must extend.

Are they debating Trump vs Sanders? Maybe who is going to win the Super Bowl?

Are they even close to making a move?

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Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #344 Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:20 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


@white
Sorry, it's been 10 days. I'm making a move.
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Offline Celebrir
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #345 Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:57 am 
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
@Observers:
What the heck are they talking about? :scratch:

It has been about a week. And even an SDK who spends five minutes analyzing the position should be able to see that white must extend.

Are they debating Trump vs Sanders? Maybe who is going to win the Super Bowl?

Are they even close to making a move?

@Joaz:
Curious to hear your opinion about this move ;-)
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #346 Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:40 pm 
Judan
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@Celebrir and other Observers:
Celebrir wrote:
@Joaz:
Curious to hear your opinion about this move ;-)


There is death in the hane.

Kirby said that he wanted to see us have a 20 point lead when he gets back. This might do it.
IOW, I'm not sure that I would take white for a 20+7 point komi.

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #347 Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:59 pm 
Judan
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@BLACK:
The hane at M16 is sente. I think that we should play it.
The position below is the best that white can get if they ignore it.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 If 2 tenukis
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 1 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O O . 6 7 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X X 4 3 8 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 O 9 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
'I have often wondered how it is that every man loves himself more than all the rest of men, but yet sets less value on his own opinions of himself than on the opinions of others." -Marcus Aurelius
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Offline andreyl
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #348 Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:24 pm 
Dies in gote

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I am quitting this rengo guys,you are welcome to replace me :)
it was fun
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Offline TegaiS
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #349 Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:37 am 
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@BLACK:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 It is not sente because we have to answer :w2:. But I think we should play it anyway.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 1 3 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O O . . 2 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #350 Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:30 am 
Judan
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O B . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
'I have often wondered how it is that every man loves himself more than all the rest of men, but yet sets less value on his own opinions of himself than on the opinions of others." -Marcus Aurelius
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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #351 Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:55 am 
Judan

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@obs
It seems this hane is so painful it made andreyl resign :) Can't say I blame him, white's shapes are pretty ugly. TegaiS said this hane is not sente because black has to answer white's hane, but that's not strictly true, black could do something like this. The 1-2 exchange is already good for black, because even after the atari at 4 (atari of 4 as cut at 5 doesn't seem to work) white would need to come back to defend the cut, and this does not threaten to kill the black group at the top (whereas after the extend at 1 turn at 5 would) so black could tenuki again to a or b or whatever.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X X 5 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 1 4 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O O . . 2 6 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X X . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 3 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline skydyr
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #352 Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:56 am 
Oza

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So, anyone feel like joining the team? Lowercase usernames preferred but not strictly necessary.
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #353 Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:08 pm 
Judan
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Should we allow a takeback?

I don't know what is going on with the other team, but the long delay before moving coupled with the withdrawl of one player soon after the move suggests to me that white is having some kind of serious dispute. The result, IMHO, was a less than ideal move.

So, @observers, black players and white players: should we do a takeback?
In particular, @andreyl: would you rejoin if we did?

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Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #354 Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:18 pm 
Gosei
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We can keep going or we can end it here, I'm fine either way.
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Offline skydyr
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #355 Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:56 am 
Oza

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I got the sense (possibly incorrect) that andreyl may have had scheduling issues or trouble finding time for the game.

I'm fine continuing or not.

@white
Assuming we continue, kosumi as mentioned?


Edit:
Thinking about it a bit more, most people who would be interested in participating have most likely read the comments on both sides already, so perhaps it would be better to call it quits and move on.
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #356 Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:44 pm 
Judan
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skydyr wrote:
...most people who would be interested in participating have most likely read the comments on both sides already...

It is a small advantage, but I wouldn't mind. I suspect that my teammates would not mind either.

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'I have often wondered how it is that every man loves himself more than all the rest of men, but yet sets less value on his own opinions of himself than on the opinions of others." -Marcus Aurelius
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Offline skydyr
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #357 Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:59 am 
Oza

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Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
So it's been a week since we called for a volunteer. I'm all for throwing in the towel at this point if no one gets back to us soon.

Edit:
Yeah, I'm done and going to look it over.
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